1. God created the Universe in 6, 24 hour days. (Young Earth view)
2. God created the Universe over billions of years. (Old Earth view)
3. God is behind the Big Bang, but allows the Universe to evolve based on the laws of physics and biology. (Theistic Evolution).
4. There is no God, he is construct of man. The Universe is a mathimatical probability. (Athiestic view).
Personally, I am number 3 guy.
In the Beginning...which one are you?
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Max Byzantium
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Re: In the Beginning...which one are you?
Post #2Actually, for me, it's none of the above...Max Byzantium wrote:1. God created the Universe in 6, 24 hour days. (Young Earth view)
2. God created the Universe over billions of years. (Old Earth view)
3. God is behind the Big Bang, but allows the Universe to evolve based on the laws of physics and biology. (Theistic Evolution).
4. There is no God, he is construct of man. The Universe is a mathimatical probability. (Athiestic view).
Personally, I am number 3 guy.
(1) Nope, the universe took approximately 13.7 billion years to evolve naturally...
(2) I guess it depends on how you define 'create', but I think of it in the same sense in how God creates us at birth. It is a natural process. No special creation taking place over billions of years.
(3) Nope, in my view God is more than just behind natural laws that started the universe. Rather, all of the natural laws and the divine laws are part of a greater whole that compose God's will. It is us who arbitrarily distinguish between the two. God is active on all levels of the universe's creation, including the ultimate salvation of humanity.
(4) Nope, it is a mistake to think of God as a person, but it is a bigger mistake to deny an all-encompassing Mind to the world.
Re: In the Beginning...which one are you?
Post #3I agree. The #3 definition is more of a Deist than a Theist position. It is closest to where I am, but I think God is continually active in the universe, not a spectator of what God began.harvey1 wrote: (3) Nope, in my view God is more than just behind natural laws that started the universe. Rather, all of the natural laws and the divine laws are part of a greater whole that compose God's will. It is us who arbitrarily distinguish between the two. God is active on all levels of the universe's creation, including the ultimate salvation of humanity.
Re: In the Beginning...which one are you?
Post #4I'll go with #4. - almost.Max Byzantium wrote:1. God created the Universe in 6, 24 hour days. (Young Earth view)
2. God created the Universe over billions of years. (Old Earth view)
3. God is behind the Big Bang, but allows the Universe to evolve based on the laws of physics and biology. (Theistic Evolution).
4. There is no God, he is construct of man. The Universe is a mathimatical probability. (Athiestic view).
Personally, I am number 3 guy.
My view on the universe is that it has always been (in some form) and always will be. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "The Universe is a mathimatical probability.
Post #5
The first one seems the most improbable using a more scientific understanding of our environment and greater universe. For me literal is not law, so I can check it off. (Unless there is another good argument for it out there.) 
Based on the second sentence, I am assuming that #4 is talking about Infinite Regress theory. If so I have a hard time with that and more often than not fall in with the 'present motion requires causation, thus there was a cause' crowd.
#2 and #3 appeal the most to me; I will not put absolutes on any of it however.
I wasn’t there so I'm still learning with what I have got.
Based on the second sentence, I am assuming that #4 is talking about Infinite Regress theory. If so I have a hard time with that and more often than not fall in with the 'present motion requires causation, thus there was a cause' crowd.
#2 and #3 appeal the most to me; I will not put absolutes on any of it however.
I wasn’t there so I'm still learning with what I have got.
What is the first business of one who practices philosophy? To get rid of self-conceit. For it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows.
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Re: In the Beginning...which one are you?
Post #7Max Byzantium wrote:1. God created the Universe in 6, 24 hour days. (Young Earth view)
2. God created the Universe over billions of years. (Old Earth view)
3. God is behind the Big Bang, but allows the Universe to evolve based on the laws of physics and biology. (Theistic Evolution).
4. There is no God, he is construct of man. The Universe is a mathimatical probability. (Athiestic view).
Personally, I am number 3 guy.
I think it is a combination of 2 and 3. But, God also created beings who can will to effect the universe. Therefore, regarding #3, the evolution is not merely deterministic or mechanical.
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Post #9
Max Byzantium:
1 & 2:
Genesis 1:14 “Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years.”
Genesis 1:16 “Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.”
2 Peter 3:8 “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The Genesis account would lead us to believe in 24 hour days – however, 2 Peter mentions one day is as a thousand years.
Now:
http://www.roman-britain.org/calendar.htm
WWW.Roman-Britain.ORG
Our modern calendar is closely based on that implemented by Julius Caesar during 46-45BC, and amended by Pope Gregory XIII in AD1582.
The ancient Roman calendar was closely linked to the science of astrology, and the teachings of Claudius Ptolemaeus, which were prevalent throughout the entire lifetime of Imperial Rome. Ptolemy's teachings were based, in turn, on those of Plato and Pythagoras who both expounded a geocentric, 'earth-centred' view of the universe in which the sun, moon and planets all revolved about a stationary Earth, positioned as it should be, at the very hub of the cosmos.
The Division of the Day
Like us, the Romans divided each day into 24 hours, and they assigned 12 to the daytime and 12 to the night. These did not run from midnight to midnight as our modern method of timekeeping does, but from sunrise to sunrise. This effectively means that the length of the Roman hour varied according to the season, so that during the summer solstice¹ around June 21st when the period of daylight is considerably longer than the night, the twelve hours assigned to the daytime would each have to be 1 hour and 16 minutes long, while conversely, during the short days of the winter solstice around December 21st, each daylight hour would be only 44 minutes long.
There were only two days during the entire year when the Roman day contained hours of exactly 60 minutes. These dates occurred during the exuinoxes,² when the length of the day is exactly equal to that of the night; the vernal equinox occurred every year around March 21st, and the autumnal equinox about September 21st.
This fluid method of timekeeping was perfectly natural to your average Roman, who was not governed by the same rigid schedules prevalent in our modern technological society and did not carry either a wristwatch or a FiloFax.
To me individually, it is inconsequential and meaningless to my life whether God created everything in six 24-hour days or six-thousand year days. The fact is that He did create, and the time in which He created the heavens and the earth, and all the creatures and man, has nothing to do with my salvation and the Scarlet Thread of Redemption. I would conclude that course of discussion would be an exercise in majoring on the minor things and minoring on the major things.
3: In-as-much as God created everything and established a sequential order, I would say that the human laws of physics are still discovering the wonders of His works.
4: Quite interesting. Yes man has a fantastic mind and our imagination is limited only to one’s depth and perception. However, consider this:
If Jesus had not risen from the dead, then his disciples would go back to their jobs as fisherman, they would mourn for a while and then get over it. And in these days there would be no Christianity.
Hmmmmm very interesting suppositions – let me see:1. God created the Universe in 6, 24 hour days. (Young Earth view)
2. God created the Universe over billions of years. (Old Earth view)
3. God is behind the Big Bang, but allows the Universe to evolve based on the laws of physics and biology. (Theistic Evolution).
4. There is no God, he is construct of man. The Universe is a mathimatical probability. (Athiestic view).
Personally, I am number 3 guy.
1 & 2:
Genesis 1:14 “Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years.”
Genesis 1:16 “Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.”
2 Peter 3:8 “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
The Genesis account would lead us to believe in 24 hour days – however, 2 Peter mentions one day is as a thousand years.
Now:
http://www.roman-britain.org/calendar.htm
WWW.Roman-Britain.ORG
Our modern calendar is closely based on that implemented by Julius Caesar during 46-45BC, and amended by Pope Gregory XIII in AD1582.
The ancient Roman calendar was closely linked to the science of astrology, and the teachings of Claudius Ptolemaeus, which were prevalent throughout the entire lifetime of Imperial Rome. Ptolemy's teachings were based, in turn, on those of Plato and Pythagoras who both expounded a geocentric, 'earth-centred' view of the universe in which the sun, moon and planets all revolved about a stationary Earth, positioned as it should be, at the very hub of the cosmos.
The Division of the Day
Like us, the Romans divided each day into 24 hours, and they assigned 12 to the daytime and 12 to the night. These did not run from midnight to midnight as our modern method of timekeeping does, but from sunrise to sunrise. This effectively means that the length of the Roman hour varied according to the season, so that during the summer solstice¹ around June 21st when the period of daylight is considerably longer than the night, the twelve hours assigned to the daytime would each have to be 1 hour and 16 minutes long, while conversely, during the short days of the winter solstice around December 21st, each daylight hour would be only 44 minutes long.
There were only two days during the entire year when the Roman day contained hours of exactly 60 minutes. These dates occurred during the exuinoxes,² when the length of the day is exactly equal to that of the night; the vernal equinox occurred every year around March 21st, and the autumnal equinox about September 21st.
This fluid method of timekeeping was perfectly natural to your average Roman, who was not governed by the same rigid schedules prevalent in our modern technological society and did not carry either a wristwatch or a FiloFax.
To me individually, it is inconsequential and meaningless to my life whether God created everything in six 24-hour days or six-thousand year days. The fact is that He did create, and the time in which He created the heavens and the earth, and all the creatures and man, has nothing to do with my salvation and the Scarlet Thread of Redemption. I would conclude that course of discussion would be an exercise in majoring on the minor things and minoring on the major things.
3: In-as-much as God created everything and established a sequential order, I would say that the human laws of physics are still discovering the wonders of His works.
4: Quite interesting. Yes man has a fantastic mind and our imagination is limited only to one’s depth and perception. However, consider this:
If Jesus had not risen from the dead, then his disciples would go back to their jobs as fisherman, they would mourn for a while and then get over it. And in these days there would be no Christianity.
DAV - USAF
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To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK
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Post #10
bernee51:
Please advise what leads you to make this statement ?????I'll go with #4. - almost.
My view on the universe is that it has always been (in some form) and always will be. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "The Universe is a mathematical probability.
DAV - USAF
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK
