Changing Religions To Get Married.

[JoeyKnothead]

Surely we've all heard of folks who will change their religion in order to marry the one they love. Is this not a bit selfishy? I mean, here you've lived all this time as A, you meet that special someone, but they are B. No problem, just convert to their religion.

So if I believe A, there is no way you can make me believe B. Of course I'm a realist, if baby is pretty I'll go for just about anything, but isn't this hypocritical in the extreme with religious beliefs?

[Ms_Maryam]

Surely we've all heard of folks who will change their religion in order to marry the one they love. Is this not a bit selfishy? I mean, here you've lived all this time as A, you meet that special someone, but they are B. No problem, just convert to their religion.

So if I believe A, there is no way you can make me believe B. Of course I'm a realist, if baby is pretty I'll go for just about anything, but isn't this hypocritical in the extreme with religious beliefs?

it definately doesn't seem genuine. Whatever you believe, you are suppose to believe it in your heart right? If one changed his/her religion just for marriage, then I would assume they don't really believe in it, and is doing so just for someone else.

[JoeyKnothead]

I can understand someone who changes faiths because they have new information, or whatever, but this one does perplex me. Even more so because it is quite common, and quite acceptable to the receiving faith anyway.

[cnorman18]

This is sometimes an issue for Jews, but not as often as it once was. At one time. It was hard to find a rabbi who would do a conversion for purposes of marriage, for the very reasons stated here. Now it's not hard at all, though the process (in my own Conservative branch) still takes about three years.

The reason for the change of attitude is simple. One must first be introduced to a religion in order to learn about it if one is to even consider changing one's faith, yes? Sometimes one first encounters a religion through a person with whom one is beginning a romantic relationship. One becomes enamored of the faith as one becomes enamored of the person, and the impulse to convert may be, and very often is, quite genuine. I know of at least two cases where a conversion was begun for purposes of marriage where the marriage fell through and never took place - but the conversion was completed anyway, because by that time the person's commitment to Judaism was solid and independent of the relationship. It's just a different route to the change.

It's also not so much an issue because intermarriage is much more common than it once was. Reform rabbis often co-officiate with priests and ministers at interfaith weddings, and it has even happened in Conservative circles. If one converts before a marriage today, it can be safely assumed that the conversion is genuine and sincere, because it just isn't necessary.

Often the convert in the marriage is more dedicated to the faith than the one born Jewish, anyway. Since converts are required to learn a very great deal about Judaism, it's not uncommon for us to be more knowledgable about and dedicated to the faith than most born Jews.

There is even a very old joke about this:

A young Jewish man goes to his mother and says, "Mama, I'm getting married."

She is overjoyed, of course - until he says, "Mama, you have to know this; she isn't Jewish."

She rolls her eyes skyward and says, "Oy vey, bubeleh, you must not marry a shiksa (Yiddish for a Gentile woman). This is a mistake, and you will regret it."

"It's all right, Mama. She's going to convert."

She shakes her finger at him and says, "That doesn't matter. Mark my words, you will be sorry. Marrying a shiksa is a mistake."

The girl's conversion is done, they get married, and all seems well. But a year or two later, the young man goes back to his mother and begins to complain.

"Mama, it's terrible," he says. "She insists that we have to be totally observant. We keep strictly kosher now, we don't eat out any more. We're davening (reciting the ritual prayers from the prayerbook) every morning, afternoon and evening, and I have to lay tefillin (wear ritual phylacteries on arm and head) every morning. We go to synagogue three times a week, and - and Mama, we're keeping the family purity laws! When she's on her period, and for seven days after, I can't touch her! Two weeks out of the month, we don't even sleep in the same bed! I'm telling you, it's driving me crazy!"

She smiles and nods at him. "Didn't I tell you?" she says. "Marrying a shiksa is a mistake, and you'll regret it, I said. Didn't I tell you, bubeleh?"

[C-Nub]

If there's one thing I like about Jews, it would have to be the bagels. If there's two, though, its the sense of humor they've cultivated surrounding their faith. For whatever reason, Jews have managed, at least largely, not to be offended or somehow 'touchy' in regards to discussions of faith and the applications of, where somehow Christians seem to think their beliefs are sacred, and questioning them is insulting.

... granted, I did start most of my questions in church with "hey stupid..." but still, that's hardly offensive.


I was, for a time, in an 'inter-faith' marriage, but my half was atheism, she was a mormon turned generic Christian during the courtship. The difference of opinions was somewhat difficult to overcome sometimes, but at the same time, it was never a major issue.

Personally, I don't see faith as something of value, and as such, its easy for me to imagine that most people who change their religious values for someone else doing so wholeheartedly and honestly. It is, after all, just a different brand of 'wrong' when all is said and done anyways. To those who value faith, however, I can see how that sort of limp-wristedness (so not a word) could come across as disingenuous. I would certainly understand why it would be hard to accept that someone who used to be a baptist is all of a sudden a Jew or Catholic or whatever, but it's not something I would personally care about. The only conversions that interest me are those from theism to non or even anti-theism, but that's not really a change of faith so much as a removal of it.

[cnorman18]

If there's one thing I like about Jews, it would have to be the bagels. If there's two, though, its the sense of humor they've cultivated surrounding their faith. For whatever reason, Jews have managed, at least largely, not to be offended or somehow 'touchy' in regards to discussions of faith and the applications of, where somehow Christians seem to think their beliefs are sacred, and questioning them is insulting.

It's a survival trait, I think. Humor, especially self-deprecating humor, is a way to defuse and fend off attack. That may be the origin of it, but it's long since become part of the culture.

People often remark on the prominence of Jews in banking, medicine, merchandising, and the law; it's not so frequently noticed how many Jews are comedians.

They are only there to provide the distraction while we take over the world, of course.

Hey, it's a work in progress. We've only been at it for 4,000 years. Give us time.

... granted, I did start most of my questions in church with "hey stupid..." but still, that's hardly offensive.

"Now wait just a damn minute, Rabbi," is heard pretty commonly in my religion. We're famous for arguing, too.

I was, for a time, in an 'inter-faith' marriage, but my half was atheism, she was a mormon turned generic Christian during the courtship. The difference of opinions was somewhat difficult to overcome sometimes, but at the same time, it was never a major issue.

The religious beliefs are rarely an issue in interfaith marriages involving Jews. That's because to us, they just aren't all that important. One's Eternal Fate does not depend upon what one believes, but upon what one does, and even there the judgment is not for us to make.

Even among Jews, the range of religious belief is very wide, from Orthodoxy (read: Jewish fundamentalism) to virtual or even literal atheism. If you're a modern Jew, you get to believe what you like.

Personally, I don't see faith as something of value, and as such, its easy for me to imagine that most people who change their religious values for someone else doing so wholeheartedly and honestly. It is, after all, just a different brand of 'wrong' when all is said and done anyways. To those who value faith, however, I can see how that sort of limp-wristedness (so not a word) could come across as disingenuous. I would certainly understand why it would be hard to accept that someone who used to be a baptist is all of a sudden a Jew or Catholic or whatever, but it's not something I would personally care about. The only conversions that interest me are those from theism to non or even anti-theism, but that's not really a change of faith so much as a removal of it.

The odd thing is that very many Jews become atheists, but almost invariably continue to self-identify as Jews. Some even continue to attend services and remain religiously observant (keeping kosher, etc.). It is extremely unusual for atheist Jews to become as hostile toward the Jewish religion as, say, ex-Catholics are toward the Church. I think that may be because most recognize that it is the freedom of thought permitted (or required) in Judaism that allowed them to become atheists, but remain Jewish, in the first place. Jews are never told what they must think. We are expected to work out our religious beliefs for ourselves.

Even during the conversion process, I was presented with a very broad spectrum of beliefs which are all considered acceptable; no recommendations were made or even hinted at. It was left up to me.

In interfaith marriages involving Jews, as I say, religious differences are rarely a problem. Cultural differences can be. You're a Jew and your wife is an atheist? No problem. She serves gefilte fish hot? Huge problem.

Intermarriage with Christians could be a problem if the Christian partner wants to convert the Jew, I suppose, but when that attitude is present, it's unlikely that the relationship would progress to the point of marriage anyway.

[JoeyKnothead]

I like the posts, good stuff, but I'm still stuck. Wouldn't one's relationship with God be more important than any human relationship.

[Fallibleone]

Well this is human nature in action. Faith is just fine until it comes up against something you really want. Then I guess you find out how devout you really are.

[McCulloch]

Surely we've all heard of folks who will change their religion in order to marry the one they love. Is this not a bit selfishy? I mean, here you've lived all this time as A, you meet that special someone, but they are B. No problem, just convert to their religion.

So if I believe A, there is no way you can make me believe B. Of course I'm a realist, if baby is pretty I'll go for just about anything, but isn't this hypocritical in the extreme with religious beliefs?

I personally do not understand it if your religious views are important to you, how you could consider a life partner who holds views radically different from your own. Of course, if your views change after marriage, or if your religion is not that important to you, then go ahead.

[Vladd44]

I have to agree with you joey.

If someone change their view on god to fit a relationship, then the god must not mean much to them.

Perhaps a triune three gods for the price of one situation.