Is Allah powerless?

[achilles12604]

No matter how much Muslims deny it, the Koran clearly states that the followers should kill and conquer infidels. This is a given.

My question, is if Allah exists in the form put forth in the Koran, why doesn't he just kill the infidels off himself? This would be much more effective wouldn't it? Why use suicide bombers when you can simply have God stop the beating hearts of all the infidels?


And just to avoid confusion, please remember I am not your average Christian and I do not hold to the OT law as binding so don't go quoting passages about suffering witches to death as this will simply be a strawman.

[umair]

No matter how much Muslims deny it, the Koran clearly states that the followers should kill and conquer infidels. This is a given.

My question, is if Allah exists in the form put forth in the Koran, why doesn't he just kill the infidels off himself? This would be much more effective wouldn't it? Why use suicide bombers when you can simply have God stop the beating hearts of all the infidels?


And just to avoid confusion, please remember I am not your average Christian and I do not hold to the OT law as binding so don't go quoting passages about suffering witches to death as this will simply be a strawman.

well , to me it is clear that are also another person caught in the present prevailing scenario of misconceptions regarding islam.


and ofcourse i am also going to ask you for the verses, but with an advice:

firstly, plz check the authenticity of the verses that you might wish to post, and secondly before posting plz try to read the verses in context of its actual meaning with the verses before and after it.

and yes always remember that allah is not bound for the worship of niether mine nor yours.

[achilles12604]

No matter how much Muslims deny it, the Koran clearly states that the followers should kill and conquer infidels. This is a given.

My question, is if Allah exists in the form put forth in the Koran, why doesn't he just kill the infidels off himself? This would be much more effective wouldn't it? Why use suicide bombers when you can simply have God stop the beating hearts of all the infidels?


And just to avoid confusion, please remember I am not your average Christian and I do not hold to the OT law as binding so don't go quoting passages about suffering witches to death as this will simply be a strawman.

well , to me it is clear that are also another person caught in the present prevailing scenario of misconceptions regarding islam.


and ofcourse i am also going to ask you for the verses, but with an advice:

firstly, plz check the authenticity of the verses that you might wish to post, and secondly before posting plz try to read the verses in context of its actual meaning with the verses before and after it.

and yes always remember that allah is not bound for the worship of niether mine nor yours.

Am I to assume that you are of the opinion that the Koran does not call for the killing of Infidels?

[umair]

No matter how much Muslims deny it, the Koran clearly states that the followers should kill and conquer infidels. This is a given.

My question, is if Allah exists in the form put forth in the Koran, why doesn't he just kill the infidels off himself? This would be much more effective wouldn't it? Why use suicide bombers when you can simply have God stop the beating hearts of all the infidels?


And just to avoid confusion, please remember I am not your average Christian and I do not hold to the OT law as binding so don't go quoting passages about suffering witches to death as this will simply be a strawman.

well , to me it is clear that are also another person caught in the present prevailing scenario of misconceptions regarding islam.


and ofcourse i am also going to ask you for the verses, but with an advice:

firstly, plz check the authenticity of the verses that you might wish to post, and secondly before posting plz try to read the verses in context of its actual meaning with the verses before and after it.

and yes always remember that allah is not bound for the worship of niether mine nor yours.

Am I to assume that you are of the opinion that the Koran does not call for the killing of Infidels?

quran does not permit for the killing of any innocent muslim or non-muslim.

[achilles12604]

No matter how much Muslims deny it, the Koran clearly states that the followers should kill and conquer infidels. This is a given.

My question, is if Allah exists in the form put forth in the Koran, why doesn't he just kill the infidels off himself? This would be much more effective wouldn't it? Why use suicide bombers when you can simply have God stop the beating hearts of all the infidels?


And just to avoid confusion, please remember I am not your average Christian and I do not hold to the OT law as binding so don't go quoting passages about suffering witches to death as this will simply be a strawman.

well , to me it is clear that are also another person caught in the present prevailing scenario of misconceptions regarding islam.


and ofcourse i am also going to ask you for the verses, but with an advice:

firstly, plz check the authenticity of the verses that you might wish to post, and secondly before posting plz try to read the verses in context of its actual meaning with the verses before and after it.

and yes always remember that allah is not bound for the worship of niether mine nor yours.

Am I to assume that you are of the opinion that the Koran does not call for the killing of Infidels?

quran does not permit for the killing of any innocent muslim or non-muslim.

I didn't ask if the Koran permitted killing innocents. I asked you if it permitted killing of INFIDELS.

Please refrain from answering questions I didn't ask.

Does the Koran support the killing of INFIDELS?

[ceegunz]

Achilles,

First, however, can we stop referring God as known in Islam as Allah? This is misleading, unnecessary, and divisive. Allah is God in Arabic. Nothing more, nothing less. Its like referring to God as believed in Eastern Orthodoxy as "Boog" instead of God, or the God French Catholics believe in as "Deu", etc. If you really want to conduct this discussion in Arabic, that's fine, but I'm not sure this forum supports the proper script.

Whew. Sorry, thats a pet peeve of mine. More importantly--

I believe you're treating Islam and the Qu'ran far more simplistically than you would be willing to do with the Bible.

To ask whether the Qu'ran supports killing all infidels is like me asking whether God hates most people because He killed nearly all mankind in the flood, or because He instructed Joshua to slaughter the Caananites (even the babies), etc. (Or, you've indicated you might question the OT in some way, so take all the killing that goes on in Revelation). Your response would, presumably, be "Well, those were special situations in which it was necessary" or whatever, right? That's the case in the Qu'ran. Anytime Muslims are told to kill others by the Qu'ran, there is a particular reason for it. Unjustified killing is not allowed according the Qu'ran (but keep in mind, unlike the Bible, there is relatively little law or commandments in the Qu'ran).

If you are contending that the Qu'ran advocates unjustified killing, what are the passages specifically to which you are referring? It seems fair that the burden of proof is on the person raising the concern.

By the way, presuming that suicide bombers correctly interpret and apply the Qu'ran is rather like me saying that Christ is responsible for people who kill abortion doctors. In no other realm do we judge a view point by the behavior of its most crazed and fanatical adherents.

Let me say lastly that I am not a Muslim, and I'm not a Muslim particularly because of problems I have with the Qu'ran. But the Qu'ran is not, in my experience, a book which advocates violence. To the contrary, the Qu'ran insists that there is no compulsion in religion, a rather enlightened view for the time period, IMO.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

No compulsion in religion refers to muslims not having to choose another way of life, not that anyone can freely pick whatever religion they choose! The fact that Muhammad sanctioned the killing of apostates, in fact, DOES compel people to fake their allegiance to Islâm.

And many notable Islâmic scholars have stated that later declarations of war completely nullify every peaceful interaction that came before. This comes from the Tafsir of ibn Kathir himself:

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20750

[ceegunz]

No compulsion in religion refers to muslims not having to choose another way of life, not that anyone can freely pick whatever religion they choose!

I never said that was any religious choice is okay under Islam.

The fact that Muhammad sanctioned the killing of apostates, in fact, DOES compel people to fake their allegiance to Islâm.

And?

And many notable Islâmic scholars have stated that later declarations of war completely nullify every peaceful interaction that came before.

I don't see where you are going with this.

[umair]

Am I to assume that you are of the opinion that the Koran does not call for the killing of Infidels?


no the quran does not permit for the killing of any innocent muslim or non-muslim.



I didn't ask if the Koran permitted killing innocents. I asked you if it permitted killing of INFIDELS.

Please refrain from answering questions I didn't ask.

Does the Koran support the killing of INFIDELS?

i havent said innocent, i said that the quran does not permit for the killing of innocent muslims and non-muslims, and i suspect that infidels fall in the category of non-muslims.


now plz don'nt start a game of words again, instead come to the point.


and yes here is a small part of data (regarding, was islam spread through violence?) which i had also pasted earlier, which i would like you to review before pasting any comments.



. islam promotes peace. at the same time islam exhorts its followers to fight where there is oppression. the fight at times may require the use of force. in islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3)opinion of historian(de lacy o leary)-the best reply to the misconception that islam was spread by sword is given by the noted historian (De Lacy O Leary) in the book "islam at the cross roads"(page8)
"history makes it clear however that the legends of fanatical muslims sweeping through the world and forcing islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated"

4)muslims ruled spain for 800 years- muslims ruled spain for about 800 yrs. the muslim in spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. later the christian crusaders came to spain and wiped out the muslims. there was not a single muslim in spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5)14million arabs are coptic christians- muslims were the lords of arabia for 1400yrs . for a few years the british ruled, and for a fe years the french ruled. overall ,the muslims ruled arabia for 1400yrs. yet today there are 14million arabs who are coptic christians ie: christians since generations. if the muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single arab who would have remained christian.

6)more than 80% non muslims in india- the muslims ruled india for about a thousand years. if they wanted,they had the power of converting each and every non-muslim of india to islam. today 80% of the population of india are non-muslims. all these non-muslims indians are bearing witness that islam was not spread by the sword.

7)indonesia and malaysia- indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of muslims in the world. the majority of people in malaysia are muslims.may one ask,"which muslim army went to indonesia or malaysia?"

8)east coast of africa-similarly islam has spread on the east coast of africa. one may again ask, if islam was spread by sword,"which muslim army went to the east coast of africa?"

9) Thomas Carlyle-the famous historian , thomas carloyle , in his book"Heroes and Hero worship", refers to the misconception about the spread of islam."the swowd indeed, but where will you get the sword? every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one . in one mans head alone. there it dwells as yet. one man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men.that he takes a sword and try to propogate with that , will do little for him. you must get your sword! on the whole , a thing will propogate itself as it can."

10)no compulsion in religion- with which sword was islam spread ? even if the muslims had it they could not use it to spread islam because the quran says in the following verse: "LET THERE BE NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION: TRUTH STANDS OUT CLEAR FROM THE ERROR"(al quran 2:256)

11)sword of the intellect- it is the sword of the intellect. the sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. the quran says in surah nahl, chapter 16 verse 125: "INVITE (ALL) TO THE WAY OF THY LORD WITH WISDOM AND BEAUTIFUL PREACHING; AND ARGUE WITH THEM IN WAYS THAT ARE BEST AND MOST GRACIOUS."

12)Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984-an article in the readers diegst 'ALMANAC' year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984 . this article also appeared in 'THE PLAIN TRUTH' magazine. at the top was islam, which increased by 235% , and christianity had incresed only by 47%. may one ask ,which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to islam?

13)islam is the fastest growing religion in america and europe- today the fastest growing religion in america is islam. which sword is forcing people in the west to accept islam in such large numbers?

14)Dr. joseph adam pearson- Dr joseph adam pearson rightly says,"people who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of arabs, fail to realize that the islamic bomb has already been dropped, it fell the day MUHAMMED(pbuh) was born"

[umair]

and yes one more thing,

if allah(swt) would have been powerless then even jesus(may peace be upon him) would have had no meaning.