islam is the only truth

[umair]

islam is the only and complete truth, and i would love to entertain any of your questions regarding islam.

[cnorman18]

islam is the only and complete truth, and i would love to entertain any of your questions regarding islam.

Okay.

1. Why is it that the publication of some cartoons, or a beauty pageant, or a quotation from an old book, can spark riots and violence worldwide among Muslims, but the repeated mass murder of innocents in the name of Allah does not?

2. Why do so many respected Muslim clerics actively advocate such murders?

3. Why is there no outrage among Muslims over "honor killings"?

4. Why is there no outrage over the beheading of hostages?

5. Why are women considered mere property in Islam, with no independent rights?

6. Why do Muslim clerics, and the Quran, explicitly and specifically advocate the hatred and murder of Jews?

7. Why is actual human slavery still tolerated in Muslim lands?

8. Why does Islam tolerate and support some of the most repressive, corrupt, and dictatorial regimes in the world?

9. Why do Muslims invoke "freedom of religion" in this country when demanding special consideration, e.g., foot baths, while denying freedom of religion to non-Muslims in the lands which they control?

10. Why are moderate Muslims who oppose terrorism, violence and intolerance of other faiths forced to live in non-Muslim lands and even then live in fear for their lives?

I think those will do for a start.

[Furrowed Brow]

Islam is the only and complete truth, and I would love to entertain any of your questions regarding Islam.

Really. The “complete truth”. Hmm . Any insights regarding the Reimann Hypothesis, Yang-Mills and the mass Gap Hypothesis or the Hodge conjecture. Sorry. I’m being facetious. But if the Qu’ran does have the answers I’d be impressed.

Okay. I’m an atheists. I deny there is a God. I believe the word to be meaningless. I reject all claims to divinity or holiness. No writing are either inspired by or directly the word of any god. The Qu’ran like all things written by men is only written by men.

What does Islam make of people like me. If I was to write an article in a Saudi or Iranian paper stating the Qu’ran to be false and rejecting its divinity - what would most likely happen to me?

Can you provide any links to Islamic debating forums where Muslim and atheist engage in debate as Christian and atheist do here?

[Catharsis]

Hi umair,

I have some questions, so I hope you're still around...

i) Why do you accuse us, Christians, of having three gods? Why do Muslims believe in a uni-personal God?

A Muslim believes that God created the world through the Word (am I correct?) -- so what the Muslim believes in as Word, is what the Orthodox Christians call the Son?

2) Why do Muslims (much like all Protestants) accuse us, Orthodox Christians, of idolatry with respect to Icons?

Thanks

[cnorman18]

Why do Muslims (much like all Protestants) accuse us, Orthodox Christians, of idolatry with respect to Icons?

Just for the record, Catharsis, we Jews (who have some pretty strong feelings about idolatry) have long since accepted that Orthodox icons (as well as statues of Mary and whoever in Catholic usage) are not idols, but merely aids to prayer and meditation. Also for the record, Methodists and Episcopalians think the same. For other denominations I cannot speak.

You're probably in trouble with the Baptists and the Pentecostals, but they don't much like anybody else, anyway.

Peace.

[Catharsis]

Hello cnorman,

As far as I know Roman Catholic statutes are not commonly venerated -- holy icons on the other hand, are venerated.

Both Orthodox Christians and Jews of the first Christian era had ONLY images (icons) in their places of worship. This is proven by the following:

http://www.philthompson.net/pages/icons ... ropos.html
http://www.philthompson.net/pages/faq/14.html#here

Home Worship of the Early Christians

In the 1920's archaeologists working in present-day Syria uncovered in the desert sands a Roman garrison town, Dura Europos; once located at the edge of the Persian empire of the Sassanids.

In 256 A.D. the Persians laid siege to the town. The desperate inhabitants attempted defend their town by piling mounds of dirt against the walls. In doing so, houses next to the west wall were buried and thus preserved for the archaeologist who uncovered them, almost 1700 years later.

The archaeologist discovered that three of the covered homes had been renovated for use as religious buildings. One had become a Mithraeum, dedicated to the worship of the god Mithras. Another had undergone structural modifications to become a Jewish synagogue. The third home had been converted to a Christian church. This Christian church is especially important as it is the earliest complete church extant.

An examination of the remains yields much about the liturgy of the early Christian church.

A typical Roman upper class house was centered around a columned courtyard with an open room, atrium . In the center of the courtyard was a pool, impluvium . At the opposite end from the entrance was a raised area tablinum containing a table and used by the family as a reception area and for ceremonial functions.

In the Dura Europos home converted to a church, scholars speculate that the congregation gathered around the pool, which was used for baptism. In the tablinum sat the bishop, who presided over the Eucharist, celebrated at the table. This arrangement provides a logical basis for the liturgical arrangement of later basilica churches.

[cnorman18]

Hello cnorman,

As far as I know Roman Catholic statutes are not commonly venerated -- holy icons on the other hand, are venerated.

Both Orthodox Christians and Jews of the first Christian era had ONLY images (icons) in their places of worship. This is proven by the following:

http://www.philthompson.net/pages/icons ... ropos.html
http://www.philthompson.net/pages/faq/14.html#here

Home Worship of the Early Christians

In the 1920's archaeologists working in present-day Syria uncovered in the desert sands a Roman garrison town, Dura Europos; once located at the edge of the Persian empire of the Sassanids.

In 256 A.D. the Persians laid siege to the town. The desperate inhabitants attempted defend their town by piling mounds of dirt against the walls. In doing so, houses next to the west wall were buried and thus preserved for the archaeologist who uncovered them, almost 1700 years later.

The archaeologist discovered that three of the covered homes had been renovated for use as religious buildings. One had become a Mithraeum, dedicated to the worship of the god Mithras. Another had undergone structural modifications to become a Jewish synagogue. The third home had been converted to a Christian church. This Christian church is especially important as it is the earliest complete church extant.

An examination of the remains yields much about the liturgy of the early Christian church.

A typical Roman upper class house was centered around a columned courtyard with an open room, atrium . In the center of the courtyard was a pool, impluvium . At the opposite end from the entrance was a raised area tablinum containing a table and used by the family as a reception area and for ceremonial functions.

In the Dura Europos home converted to a church, scholars speculate that the congregation gathered around the pool, which was used for baptism. In the tablinum sat the bishop, who presided over the Eucharist, celebrated at the table. This arrangement provides a logical basis for the liturgical arrangement of later basilica churches.

Fascinating! Thanks! My own synagogue has stained-glass windows that contain images, though I don't remember of what; they aren't abstract, though.

Anyway, like I said; you don't worship idols. I think the only religion extant that still does that might be Hinduism, but I'm not certain of even that.

Thanks! I thoroughly enjoyed the links!

[umair]

islam is the only and complete truth, and i would love to entertain any of your questions regarding islam.

Okay.

1. Why is it that the publication of some cartoons, or a beauty pageant, or a quotation from an old book, can spark riots and violence worldwide among Muslims, but the repeated mass murder of innocents in the name of Allah does not?

2. Why do so many respected Muslim clerics actively advocate such murders?

3. Why is there no outrage among Muslims over "honor killings"?

4. Why is there no outrage over the beheading of hostages?

5. Why are women considered mere property in Islam, with no independent rights?

6. Why do Muslim clerics, and the Quran, explicitly and specifically advocate the hatred and murder of Jews?

7. Why is actual human slavery still tolerated in Muslim lands?

8. Why does Islam tolerate and support some of the most repressive, corrupt, and dictatorial regimes in the world?

9. Why do Muslims invoke "freedom of religion" in this country when demanding special consideration, e.g., foot baths, while denying freedom of religion to non-Muslims in the lands which they control?

10. Why are moderate Muslims who oppose terrorism, violence and intolerance of other faiths forced to live in non-Muslim lands and even then live in fear for their lives?

I think those will do for a start.

well i am happy that you have asked the questions which you had and given me a chance to clarify not only yours but of those who think alike.

i will prefer to answer your answer in points according to your questions:

1)well, the prophet muhammed(pbuh) during his lifetime prohibited his followers from making any of his impression (painting,sculpture or skecth), because he did not wanted to commit the mistake which the messengers of allah before him(jesus,moses,abraham,etc.) had done, because of which their followers forgot their messege to worship in the one and only god(allah)(swt), and instead took their images and started worshipping them.
so we muslims respect the prophets sayings and hence stay away from making any of his images or idols.

but why does any body just under the banner of 'freedom of expression' has the right to hurt the religious sentiments of billions of people.


and your expreesion 'that the mass murder of innocents in the name of allah'. is void, because there has been no such case except a few attacks which are thought to have been done by the muslims, and even if we believe it to be true, then ofcourse i accept it as being wrong, because allah in the quran says that the murder of a single innocent man is equal to the sin of murdering the whole world.
but tell me one thing, how can the arabs retaliate to what the america has done. killed over 2000000 innocent muslims in the last 6yrs alone and that too just for the sake of oil,priceless!

2)tell me one such example for any muslim cleric ,leading mass murders.

3)well the so called honour killings are sinful and prohibited in islam, and are not a result of islamic teachings but are the personal outrage of those who have seen their families dyieng at the hands of american and israieli forces, and have seen their countries devastated just for the sake of pride of one nation.

4)there has always been a world wide concern among the muslims for the activities of few such men,who are doing wrong and spreading a wrong messege regarding islam,but this has been a rare case and i guess they might have seen the videos of the beheading of the iraqi men at the hands of the american forces in the iraqi prisons which might have led them to take these kinds of revenge.

5) well this is the most common misconception about islam . i would like to give you certain points on this subject and then like you to ponder upon it to take out a conclusion;

a)islam gave the woman the right to own property, run a business, manage her financial accounts etc; 1400yrs ago(at the time the religion started) , which the west could recognize only about 150yrs ago.

b)islam has given the woman much more freedom than in any other religion, like the fact that it is the responsibility of the father , brother ,husband, and son to fulfill her financial needs and it is just her will whether she wants to work or not.

c)even after divorce if the woman bears her a child , then it is the responsibility of the man to fulfill its needs etc.

practically she is enjoying all the wrights that men do , then where do you find that she is being exploited , please give me your points.

6)it is just a misnoma that you might have heard , the quran gives a detailed review of the life of moses(peace be upon him), and how allah has bestowed and cared for his people the most.

7) I guess no where will you find it now, but yes islam laid such beautiful ways of dealing with the slaves that it was not considered as something inhuman in the way in which the europeans dealt with them.
a simple example of it is that the prophet used to sit with his slave and give him what he ate, and considered him and openly called him as his son. the slave is not the word in islam which is considered in the west as not to have any freedom instead they were like employees having all the freedoms .

The slave also enjoyed the legal right to earn money and hold property independently of his master, the right to keep his religion and to have a family and family life with the attendant rights and obligations. As well as personal dignity and a degree of material security, the Islamic laws and norms allowed the slave a still more precious opening-the hope and means of freedom.

The dignity and respect given to slaves by their masters can be measured by the extents that the masters used to give them part of their dynasties ,a few examples of which are : Harun al-Rashid, let us recall that this man who enjoyed such authority and power over all Muslims was the son of a slave.
Besides who can forget the famous slave dynasty of India which ruled for 300yrs.


8) now, I dont know what was your base for giving such a point , please give me the reference about which you want to talk.

9) history is evident that no muslim ruler has ever interfered with the religious practices of their inhabitants, some common exmples for those are:
a)muslims ruled spain for about 800 yrs , but at last were tortured at the hands of the crusaders, and either had to leave or live as a subordinate form.
b)the muslims ruled over india for about 1000yrs, after which the british came for about 200yrs before india could gain its independence as a democratic country.
but still they are in a minority of only 20%, which is enough to proof that no religious obligations were made on the hindus over there who are the 80% population of the country.
and even presently you will find no muslim country where the non muslims are not given their full rights and are living with their full dignity.

10) whom do you call as a moderate muslim, do you know that all the muslims of the world oppose terrorism, and have always as even now lived in harmony with the men of other faith.
but if you are talking for men like sulman rushdie, and nasreena parveen who in their books have cursed all the messengers of god , and god himself,then again my first point should be thought upon.

i would be waiting for your further questions, and still if i would have left some point unclear then please ask me again.

[umair]

Islam is the only and complete truth, and I would love to entertain any of your questions regarding Islam.

Really. The “complete truth”. Hmm . Any insights regarding the Reimann Hypothesis, Yang-Mills and the mass Gap Hypothesis or the Hodge conjecture. Sorry. I’m being facetious. But if the Qu’ran does have the answers I’d be impressed.

Okay. I’m an atheists. I deny there is a God. I believe the word to be meaningless. I reject all claims to divinity or holiness. No writing are either inspired by or directly the word of any god. The Qu’ran like all things written by men is only written by men.

What does Islam make of people like me. If I was to write an article in a Saudi or Iranian paper stating the Qu’ran to be false and rejecting its divinity - what would most likely happen to me?

Can you provide any links to Islamic debating forums where Muslim and atheist engage in debate as Christian and atheist do here?

well your queries are valid because all the athiest think alike,

but at this stance i would like to tell you that quran is not like any other scripture, full of scientific and logical blunders ,and this is what most of the atheist think it to be.

well stating clearly, science is what we want today to prove for the authenticity of anything, and talks of supernatural and god fearing are things of the past. so ponder on some of the points below and then i would like to have your reviews:

first and the most important is that the quran has no scientific blunders , regarding any aspect of study,
in the second point i would like to mention the fact that the quran houses many of the scientific facts which we have either understood now or still do not know eg:

1) in the book it has been mentioned that (humans have been created from a blood clot, which is like a leech in its initial stage ie:sucks blood,and clings to the mothers uterus.)[the initial stage of the development of a feotus].and many other facts related to biology.

2)the book mentions that sun also rotates in its path along with revolution and that the universe has been created after being broken from a big mass (ie:the big bang ),and many other facts related to the universe like the spherical shape of earth, the moon having its own light,etc.

for many such facts you can visit: http://www.irf.net/irf/drzakirnaik/dznindex.htm
(quran and modern science)

3)and the third is the logical part is that the quran still retains its originality , and has not been adulterated like other scriptures, a simple proof of which is that any copy of the quran from any part of the world has the same notes.

and yes you can open any of the islamic sites and ask questions .

[umair]

Hi umair,

I have some questions, so I hope you're still around...

i) Why do you accuse us, Christians, of having three gods? Why do Muslims believe in a uni-personal God?

A Muslim believes that God created the world through the Word (am I correct?) -- so what the Muslim believes in as Word, is what the Orthodox Christians call the Son?

2) Why do Muslims (much like all Protestants) accuse us, Orthodox Christians, of idolatry with respect to Icons?

Thanks

well first i would like to thank you for posing your queries:

i would like to tell you about what does allah(swt) speaks about himself and the concept of holy trinity in the quran:

REGARDING THE SONSHIP OF JESUS:

"That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
When He decrees a thing, He but says to it 'Be', and it is." (Qur'an
19:34, 35)

"And they say, 'the All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it
behooves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
heavens and earth but he comes to the All-Merciful as a servant."
(Qur'an 19:88-93)

"Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be', and he was." (Qur'an
3:59)

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not,
'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to
Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the
heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian." (Qur'an 4:171)


B. REGARDING JESUS BEING GOD:

"And when God said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take
me and my mother as gods, apart from God?"' He said, 'To You be glory!
It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take me
to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of everything.'"
(Qur'an 5:116, 117)


C. REGARDING CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS

"And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary,
the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay
him of certainty...no indeed; God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty,
All-Wise. There is not one of the People of the Book but will assuredly
believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day, he will be
a witness against them." (Qur'an 4:156-159)



and the most important is how god describes himself in the quran as:

in the name of allah , the most merciful, the most graceful
Say, he is Allah, the one.
Allah is eternel and absolute(lives forever and is above all needs)
non is born of him, nor is he born
and there is none like him.