weed, marry jane, tree, pot, grass, herb, bud, sticky icky

[TQWcS]

Should marijuana be legal.

[youngborean]

As a christian.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

I believe that the Marijuana laws are completely against Biblical liberty and Gods good intention for humanity. That being said, God has appointed people to be in control of the safety and security of there people. Since Drugs and Crime is intimately related, I believe a Christian should respect the laws until the government becomes clear-headed enough to legalize all drugs. Not just the ones the companies make.

[TQWcS]

I believe that the Marijuana laws are completely against Biblical liberty and Gods good intention for humanity. That being said, God has appointed people to be in control of the safety and security of there people. Since Drugs and Crime is intimately related, I believe a Christian should respect the laws until the government becomes clear-headed enough to legalize all drugs. Not just the ones the companies make.

Well the reason drugs and crime are related is because doing and selling drugs is a crime.

There is a difference between the drugs companies make and the illegal ones. The drug companies spend billions of dollars on research and development of the drugs and then they are tested by the FDA for years. Once it hits the market if there is some unseen problem they take it off the market. If you wanted to legalize all drugs then shouldn't they have to pass the same tests and criteria... Or should your box of crack you buy at the grocery store just read, "may cause you to go crazy, kill some people, or die."

Also the amount of people that use the drugs will increase and a percentage of those will become dependent, thus reducing the productivity of the American workforce.

[Gaunt]

There is a difference between the drugs companies make and the illegal ones.

You are confusing recreational drugs with pharmaceuticals. Marijuana and the rest are more analogous to alcohol or tobacco.

I think it should be legalized. Makes it safer for everyone involved, cuts down on crime, and the government can tax it. win win win.

[TQWcS]

If more people are doing illegal drugs then more people are going to experience the negative side effects of those drugs.Smoking a joint is four times more carcinogenic than smoking a cigarette, it remains in the body for weeks at a time, and it is psychologically addicting. Nearly all heroin users were initially marijuana smokers. In 1988, a National Institute on Drug Abuse survey found that marijuana smokers are thirty times more likely to use cocaine than those who've never smoked it. Other research confirms a strong correlation between marijuana use and use of cocaine, heroin and the hallucinogens. Those side affects are going to cost insurance companies money and then the cost is going to be past on to, me, the consumer. The entire argument against legalizing marijuana centers around the fact that a serious market failure would exist in legalizing marijuana; any price established in the market will not equal the marginal social cost of producing the good.

I think it should be legalized. Makes it safer for everyone involved, cuts down on crime, and the government can tax it. win win win.

It doesn't cut down on real crime it just cuts down on the crimes that pertain to marijuana such as selling and using it. I believe it will increase other crimes especially since marijuana is considerded a "gateway drug".

"The best argument, perhaps, for keeping marijuana illegal across the board is that we simply don't need another widely available intoxicating substance, however benign, which might deflect adolescents from the necessary business of putting their lives together."

[ST88]

If more people are doing illegal drugs then more people are going to experience the negative side effects of those drugs.Smoking a joint is four times more carcinogenic than smoking a cigarette, it remains in the body for weeks at a time, and it is psychologically addicting.

The carcinogenic compounds in burnt marijuana are the same as those in burnt tobacco: hydrocarbons, cyanide, benzopyrene. The actual active substance, THC, is not carcinogenic. Some reasons why marijuana smoke is more carcinogenic than tobacco: 1) marijuana "cigarettes" do not contain filters as tobacco cigarettes do; 2) ritual smoking of marijuana involves inhaling more deeply and keeping the smoke in your lungs for a longer period of time (which, by the way, does not increase its psychoactive effect); 3) slightly higher levels of benzopyrene. Further, nicotine itself is a better carcinogenic agent*. But this argument is based on a comparison of tobacco products, and if you're going to compare marijuana to tobacco, you should be prepared either to ban tobacco sales or allow marijuana sales.

The psychoactive compound found in marijuana, THC, does stay in the body longer than nicotine does. This has not been found to mean anything. THC is not carcinogeneic, nor is there any lingering effect of action on the brain even though the compound is still in the body (it is stored in fatty tissue).


The psychological dependency argument is ludicrous. Another word for psychological dependency is "nervous habit." I feel an overwhelming need to doublecheck that the VCR is actually recording when I try to tape a TV show. A better dependency argument would be a physical one -- that you need to take in successively larger amounts of THC in order to get the same effects over time. But this is also true of caffeine.

Nearly all heroin users were initially marijuana smokers. In 1988, a National Institute on Drug Abuse survey found that marijuana smokers are thirty times more likely to use cocaine than those who've never smoked it. Other research confirms a strong correlation between marijuana use and use of cocaine, heroin and the hallucinogens.

Setting aside the flawed methodology of these studies, wouldn't it make sense that one illegal drug begets another? If my marijuana supplier suddenly asked me if I wanted to try cocaine, I can figure that I'm already doing something illegal, what is this but just more illegality?

If marijuana were legalized, this argument would fall into dust, because the retail outlets for these drugs would be different.

Those side affects are going to cost insurance companies money and then the cost is going to be past on to, me, the consumer. The entire argument against legalizing marijuana centers around the fact that a serious market failure would exist in legalizing marijuana; any price established in the market will not equal the marginal social cost of producing the good.

This is precisely the case for tobacco, alcohol, polyunsaturated fats, hydrogenated tropical oils, manteca, a plain rice diet; and for that matter, cement stairways in winter climes, experimental aircraft, obstetricians, New Jersey tap water, and hockey games.

It doesn't cut down on real crime it just cuts down on the crimes that pertain to marijuana such as selling and using it. I believe it will increase other crimes especially since marijuana is considerded a "gateway drug".

If marijuana is legalized, the "gateway drug" argument, however much a fallacy now, would be rendered unusable. The White House says that about half of all drug possession convictions in Federal court were for marijuana. Imagine cutting the number of drug crimes in half!

"The best argument, perhaps, for keeping marijuana illegal across the board is that we simply don't need another widely available intoxicating substance, however benign, which might deflect adolescents from the necessary business of putting their lives together."

Sniffing of glue and other substances -- not to mention raiding the 'rents liquor cabinet -- would still be much cheaper. This is the same argument that we use to keep them from alcohol (& pornography & voting, etc.) and cannot be used as a rationale to deny the rest of the population the right to use it.

*nicotine itself is not a carcinogen, but other carcinogens are released when it is metabolized.

[TQWcS]

This is precisely the case for tobacco, alcohol, polyunsaturated fats, hydrogenated tropical oils, manteca, a plain rice diet; and for that matter, cement stairways in winter climes, experimental aircraft, obstetricians, New Jersey tap water, and hockey games.

Why add another one to the picture? If America wants to profit off weed they should tax the people caught using/selling it. This will greatly reduce the number of people in our prisons and it will increase productivity. By the way saturated fats are the bad boys... Polyunsaturated fats reduce blood cholesterol and as far as I know the things mentioned above do not form psychological addiction.

psychological addiction occurs when the individual user feels or is of the opinion that drugs are necessary for his or her life. This is not to suggest that psychological addiction is easily dismissed; indeed it can have a profound influence on how addicts live their lives. Such especially is the case when addicts live in a culture that continually reinforces the desirability or necessity of drug use. "This observation gives one pause when we realize that THC is both dangerous and habit-forming. Marinol, a prescription drug that is very occasionally used in the treatment of nausea associated with chemotherapy, is chemically synthesized THC. Most people are familiar with the information sheets that come with prescription drugs - the pieces of paper that detail the indications and usage of the drug in question, its potential side-effects, its chemical composition, etc. The information sheet that comes with Marinol states verbatim, "MARINOL is highly abusable and can produce both physical and psychological dependence .... Patients receiving MARINOL should be closely observed." The company that produces Marinol goes on to explain that its THC may cause 'changes in mood ... decrements in cognitive performance and memory, a decreased ability to control drives and impulses [and] . . . a full-blown picture of psychosis (psychotic organic brain syndrome) may occur in patients receiving doses within the lower portion of the therapeutic range.'" A study by Dr. Susan Dalterio, at the University of Texas found that marijuana decreased testosterone and impaired sexual development in male mice. A study by Dr. Albert Munson found that injections of THC suppressed the immune systems of mice and made them 96 times more susceptible to the herpes virus. Dr. Charles R. Schuster, former Director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse said, "The fact that there are over 77,000 admissions a year to treatment programs for marijuana use and that annually almost 8,000 persons require emergency hospital care for marijuana use is sufficient evidence of the drugs dangerousness." Both proponents and opponents of legalization are in agreement that legalization almost certainly would decrease the price of drugs as they became more available. However, basic economic theory states that as the price of a commodity declines, demand for the commodity will increase. History also supports the fact that legalization would increase addiction rates. When opium was legal in the United States at the turn of the century, we had proportionately between two and three times the number of addicts than we do presently.Furthermore, Dr. Richard Schwartz, Professor of Pediatrics at Georgetown University School of Medicine, notes that Alaska and Oregon, the states that traditionally have had the most lenient drug laws, also have the highest marijuana addiction rates in the United States double the national average.

[ST88]

If America wants to profit off weed they should tax the people caught using/selling it. This will greatly reduce the number of people in our prisons and it will increase productivity.

Though it's not a tax, America does profit off of marijuana. Local police authorities who confiscate cash and/or property from drug possessors get to keep them. You can't tax illegal activity, but you can appropriate whatever you want from its operations.

By the way unsaturated fats are the bad boys... Polyunsaturated fats reduce blood cholesterol and as far as I know the things mentioned above do not form psychological addiction.

Yes, you're right about the fats. Although, in my defense, these oils have been linked to lowering even the good cholesterol and some cancers. And I wasn't talking about psychological addiction here, I was responding your two-pronged fiscal argument argument 1) that insurance companies would raise their premiums due to marijuana-related side effects, and 2) that the social cost of marijuana outwieghs the cost of production (or was it retail?). In any case, you could make a case that destructive behavior is destructive behavior no matter what the type of destruction is. And insurance companies do not need an excuse to raise their premiums. Insurance premium costs have risen almost 200% in the last four years.

psychological addiction occurs when the individual user feels or is of the opinion that drugs are necessary for his or her life. This is not to suggest that psychological addiction is easily dismissed; indeed it can have a profound influence on how addicts live their lives. Such especially is the case when addicts live in a culture that continually reinforces the desirability or necessity of drug use.

Sounds like capitalism to me. I am constantly bombarded by messages that I must treat my car like a fashion accessory, change cars every year or so, just so I can have the latest model. It's true that people fall for this stuff every day, so who's at fault? The drug companies that put forth the idea that your life is empty without drugs or the governments that allow the drug companies to do this, or you who allow both to manipulate you into believing your life is completely without meaning.

"This observation gives one pause when we realize that THC is both dangerous and habit-forming. Marinol, a prescription drug that is very occasionally used in the treatment of nausea associated with chemotherapy, is chemically synthesized THC....

If your objection is to THC, Marinol is not marijuana. Marinol is highly concentrated and delivers THC in a much higher dose than marijuana ever would. The analogue use to marinol is ingestion of marijuana leaves. But because the leaves are vegetable matter, they must be broken down slowly through the intestinal tract, releasing THC at a reasonable rate for body response. Ingestion of marijuana is well-known to have less severe effects than smoking it. Marinol, however, is more potent per dose than any pan of brownies and therefore exaggerates the symptoms of regular marijuana use.

The addiction argument against medical marijuana is particularly galling to me. I wouldn't give a rat's patootie if I got addicted to marinol or marijuana or some other form of nausea alleviant and pain-killer if I were in the stage of cancer or AIDS it was prescribed for. Addict me! Palliative care in this country is a joke. We should be seeking to alleviate pain in any way possible for the people who need it. And now you're going to tell me that I can't smoke marijuana for my stomach cancer because I might get lung cancer in 30 years? I'll be lucky if I survive five more years!

Legalization is just an extension of this argument. What is the analogue for this situation? Painkilllers. Antihistamines. Poppies. Did you know that I can legally grow the poppies responsible for opium in my own back yard? I can even legally collect the seeds. And opioids are prescribed in stronger doses via morphine, codeine, and hydrocodone. So why can't I grow a marijuana plant?

A study by Dr. Susan Dalterio, at the University of Texas found that marijuana decreased testosterone and impaired sexual development in male mice.

Sexual development and testosterone production is affected by many things, like zinc.

A study by Dr. Albert Munson found that injections of THC suppressed the immune systems of mice and made them 96 times more susceptible to the herpes virus.

A study done by H.N. Bhargava et al in 1996 showed that immune response was normalized when tolerance to THC was achieved (8 days in lab mice), and that there was equal incidence of initial suppression and assistance of various immune system responses. Further, the amounts used in the Munson study were higher concentrations than is even available via Marinol, and are certainly higher than is in marijuana.

Dr. Charles R. Schuster, former Director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse said, "The fact that there are over 77,000 admissions a year to treatment programs for marijuana use and that annually almost 8,000 persons require emergency hospital care for marijuana use is sufficient evidence of the drugs dangerousness."

Most individuals in treatment programs are legally mandated to go there. And the number of emergency room visits "for marijuana use" is specious. The correct phrase is "showed mention of marijuana." These individuals did not go to the emergency room because of marijuana use, most went co-incident of their use of marijuana or had marijuana in their systems at the time of admission (90-day lag time for THC detection).

Both proponents and opponents of legalization are in agreement that legalization almost certainly would decrease the price of drugs as they became more available. However, basic economic theory states that as the price of a commodity declines, demand for the commodity will increase.

And when demand increases, then supply decreases and the price goes back up. There will be an equilibrium point -- that's just economics. I still maintain that airplane glue would be cheaper than McMarijuana.

History also supports the fact that legalization would increase addiction rates. When opium was legal in the United States at the turn of the century, we had proportionately between two and three times the number of addicts than we do presently.Furthermore, Dr. Richard Schwartz, Professor of Pediatrics at Georgetown University School of Medicine, notes that Alaska and Oregon, the states that traditionally have had the most lenient drug laws, also have the highest marijuana addiction rates in the United States double the national average.

Opium is highly addictive. Even the advocates of the addiction theory of marijuana agree that marijuana is not nearly as addictive as opium or even alcohol and cigarettes. I do not agree that marijuana is addictive. There is simply no evidence for it. That there is a predilection among law enforcement bodies to call repeat users of a substance "addicted" does not mean that they are physiologically addicted. Many people might enjoy the altered state of mind they get with marijuana, and would therefore like to repeat the experience, but this does not imply addiction. When you see the phrase "Marijuana addiction" it is likely a bureaucratic or administrative term of popular policy rather than a scientific term.

[mrmufin]

Nearly all heroin users were initially marijuana smokers. [....] Other research confirms a strong correlation between marijuana use and use of cocaine, heroin and the hallucinogens.

And nearly all marijuana users were previously pizza eaters. In fact, some 99.8% of all marijuana users tried pizza before touching the evil weed!

A correlation is one thing, while demonstrable causation is something else. Some may argue that a correlation without demonstrable causation is but a coincidence... So unless you're able to show the mechanics of how marijuana use leads to use of other drugs, the gateway drug bit remains unconvincing and unscientific. Demonstrating a gateway effect would mean gathering some additinoal data, such as the percentage of marijuana users who have used heroin, in addition to considering the percentage of heroin users who previously used marijuana. Once that data is gleaned, I suspect the correlation between smoking pot and using other drugs starts to break down, due to the high number of us who have smoked pot and never had any desire to use heroin.

Regards,
mrmufin

[TQWcS]

A correlation is one thing, while demonstrable causation is something else. Some may argue that a correlation without demonstrable causation is but a coincidence... So unless you're able to show the mechanics of how marijuana use leads to use of other drugs, the gateway drug bit remains unconvincing and unscientific.

THC owes many of its effects to its similarity to a family of chemicals called the endogenous cannabinoids, which are natural Cannabis-like chemicals. Because a THC molecule is shaped like these endogenous cannabinoids, it interacts with the same receptors on nerve cells, the cannabinoid receptors, that endogenous cannabinoids do, and it influences many of the same processes. Research has shown that the endogenous cannabinoids help control a wide array of mental and physical processes in the brain and throughout the body, including memory and perception, fine motor coordination, pain sensations, immunity to disease, and reproduction.

When someone smokes marijuana, THC overstimulates the cannabinoid receptors, leading to a disruption of the endogenous cannabinoids' normal control. This overstimulation produces the intoxication experienced by marijuana smokers. Over time, it may degrade some cannabinoid receptors, possibly producing permanent adverse effects and contributing to addiction and risk for a withdrawal syndrome.

Depression, anxiety, and personality disturbances are all associated with marijuana use. Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana use has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana's adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off. One would suspect since the person has already tried to self medicate themselves with marijuana then may try to medicate the aformentioned problems with other illegal drugs.

I suspect the correlation between smoking pot and using other drugs starts to break down, due to the high number of us who have smoked pot and never had any desire to use heroin.

There is a high number of people that have drank beer and not become addicted I guess I should use this logic and admit that alcohol is not addictive.

Though it's not a tax, America does profit off of marijuana. Local police authorities who confiscate cash and/or property from drug possessors get to keep them. You can't tax illegal activity, but you can appropriate whatever you want from its operations.

I highly doubt they profit from the war on drugs since it costs billions to support. If we made it legal to tax the offenders then the war would pay for itself. People would have to make an economic decision, do they value the utility of money or weed more. The libertarian party has supported this for years.

Insurance premium costs have risen almost 200% in the last four years.

Why add to that?

Sounds like capitalism to me. I am constantly bombarded by messages that I must treat my car like a fashion accessory, change cars every year or so, just so I can have the latest model. It's true that people fall for this stuff every day, so who's at fault? The drug companies that put forth the idea that your life is empty without drugs or the governments that allow the drug companies to do this, or you who allow both to manipulate you into believing your life is completely without meaning.

You can undermine psychological addiction all you would like to. It is an easy thing to do when you have never experienced it. Drug companies in no way tell people that their life is empty without drugs... and doctors do not tell people that either. I suppose you are talking about antidepressant drugs like zoloft? Have you ever been with a person that experiences clinical depression? Some people, without the help of medicines like zoloft, would kill themselves if nothing is done. Also in severe cases of clinical depression the doctor recommends a combo of therapy and medicine.

Marinol is highly concentrated and delivers THC in a much higher dose than marijuana ever would.

It is delivered at very low doses but high concentration. Also remember THC amounts in marijuana have increases from the ol' woodstock days of 1% to around 28% concentration. If it did take such high amounts of THC, that could never be reached by marijuana, to relieve symptoms one wonders why people are for the medical use of the drug?

A study done by H.N. Bhargava et al in 1996 showed that immune response was normalized when tolerance to THC was achieved (8 days in lab mice), and that there was equal incidence of initial suppression and assistance of various immune system responses.

Above you stated you didn't trust mice. Come on flip flopper!

And when demand increases, then supply decreases and the price goes back up. There will be an equilibrium point -- that's just economics. I still maintain that airplane glue would be cheaper than McMarijuana.

In regular economics yes. The exception is drugs. The price is set low and the demand is high then the price goes up and the demand is the same. Also you have to remember weed is a agricultural product we would grow it in extremely large amounts the only way price could go up is if subsidies from the gov. were given.

Did you know that I can legally grow the poppies responsible for opium in my own back yard?

Did you know I can legally eat a poppy seed muffin? Did you know I can make a rope out of hemp?