One Million Euro Prize to proove God Existence

[SwissMan2007]

Hello all,

looking for a place where debatng my beliefs about science and christianity I've found a website that offers one million euro to the one that will show that God really exists.

The website seems to be run by a bunch of sarcastic atheists, but their offer seems interesting to me.

www.faithdebate.net

Regards.

R. Hetter

[wilfongconrad]

any person who knows god exists, can't physically prove it. God isn't of this world, hes of a perfect world, this is satans planet. Yes maybe God created this universe and planet but that doesn't mean satan doesn't run things here. If you where in the prescence of the lord.. you would more then likely be in heaven. In spiritual form. So theres no real way to prove god exists.. and you can't bribe god to show you with that million dollars lol so its a good play on the atheists part.. Since they don't believe in god, they are now able to support their claims by showing people that noone can prove taht god exists even for a million dollars.. But god doesn't operate through money and never will. I'd say the biggest proof that god exists is that noone will be able to prove taht he exists for a million dollars.. Just shows that god isn't about greed. Satan is about greed,lust,death.

[Zzyzx]

.

any person who knows god exists, can't physically prove it.

The challenge is not restricted to those who know gods exist. Since those who believe cannot demonstrate the existence of gods, those who don’t believe have an opportunity to win the award.

God isn't of this world, hes of a perfect world, this is satans planet. Yes maybe God created this universe and planet but that doesn't mean satan doesn't run things here.

A “perfect”, omnipotent and omniscient god, creates a planet and inhabitants, then allows a “fallen angel” to run the show – sounds like a contradiction.

If you where in the prescence of the lord.. you would more then likely be in heaven. In spiritual form.

Or in a loony bin.

So theres no real way to prove god exists..

That is correct. Theists believe in beings that cannot be known or shown to exist.

and you can't bribe god to show you with that million dollars lol so its a good play on the atheists part..

Atheists, who don’t accept anyone’s gods, are not likely to be trying to “bribe god”. They are demonstrating that proof of god cannot be provided – by humans – even for a large monetary reward.

Since they don't believe in god, they are now able to support their claims by showing people that noone can prove taht god exists even for a million dollars..

Simple mistake – a million euros is not the same as a million dollars. Check the exchange rate.

But god doesn't operate through money and never will. I'd say the biggest proof that god exists is that noone will be able to prove taht he exists for a million dollars..

Theist “reasoning” = failure to prove that gods exist is proof that gods exist.

With that kind of “thinking”, it is no wonder that people believe that invisible super beings created the Earth and influence human lives.

Just shows that god isn't about greed. Satan is about greed,lust,death.

If the god legend was correct, the “perfect” god CREATED greed, lust, death AND Satan.

[rusty]

Zzyzx wrote:

A “perfect”, omnipotent and omniscient god, creates a planet and inhabitants, then allows a “fallen angel” to run the show – sounds like a contradiction.

Think of it this way Z. Man was given dominion over the earth and everything in it. Man is now a fallen creature.----This is similar to Satan, the fallen angel who was the brightest and perhaps most dominant of angels.

So the fallen man is ruling the earth without regard to God and God's design. Man is in rebellion against God. Man doesn't need a scapegoat like Satan. It is man who is confused and not believing the truth, not God or Satan. Satan knows the truth, but has chosen to ignore it and place himself above it. Gee, man does that, too.

But out of the rebellious, God will draw out a people who WANT to serve Him. Who, with God's love and wisdom, will not perish forever, but will be raised tiumphant over those who chose not to believe God.

Who needs a devil? Man is already devilish himself! Devilish man is "running the show." I haven't seen a ghostly apparition, or a phantom spirit, or an evil angel running the show, have you?
rusty

[Zzyzx]

.

Think of it this way Z. Man was given dominion over the earth and everything in it. Man is now a fallen creature.----This is similar to Satan, the fallen angel who was the brightest and perhaps most dominant of angels.

So the fallen man is ruling the earth without regard to God and God's design. Man is in rebellion against God. Man doesn't need a scapegoat like Satan. It is man who is confused and not believing the truth, not God or Satan. Satan knows the truth, but has chosen to ignore it and place himself above it. Gee, man does that, too.

But out of the rebellious, God will draw out a people who WANT to serve Him. Who, with God's love and wisdom, will not perish forever, but will be raised tiumphant over those who chose not to believe God.

Who needs a devil? Man is already devilish himself! Devilish man is "running the show." I haven't seen a ghostly apparition, or a phantom spirit, or an evil angel running the show, have you?
rusty

Rusty,

Apparently there is a bit of disagreement among religionists concerning the importance of “Satan”. Can’t religionists keep their super beings straight? Whose story is correct?

I was responding to:

God isn't of this world, hes of a perfect world, this is satans planet. Yes maybe God created this universe and planet but that doesn't mean satan doesn't run things here.

when I said:

A “perfect”, omnipotent and omniscient god, creates a planet and inhabitants, then allows a “fallen angel” to run the show – sounds like a contradiction.

As you are aware, I don’t accept the statement “man was given dominion over the Earth”. I regard that as a story invented by Bronze Age storytellers and clerics – that has not been substantiated in any way (other than by the story itself).

Who needs a devil? Organized, commercial religion and professional religionists need devils and “fallen” people as income security. Without fear of devils and “damnation”, religion would lose a certain amount of appeal (most in my opinion). Apparently many non-professional religionists also need the concept of devils to justify their beliefs – and to attempt to frighten others into worshiping invisible super beings.

Devils are supposedly also invisible super beings – but not as super as gods – but more than angels (or perhaps less than angels, cherubs, dominions, etc)

But out of the rebellious, God will draw out a people who WANT to serve Him. Who, with God's love and wisdom, will not perish forever, but will be raised tiumphant over those who chose not to believe God.

This is an interesting, self-serving story. Who made it up? How can anyone test its authenticity?

[McCulloch]

looking for a place where debatng my beliefs about science and christianity I've found a website that offers one million euro to the one that will show that God really exists.

The website seems to be run by a bunch of sarcastic atheists, but their offer seems interesting to me.

www.faithdebate.net

Regards.

R. Hetter

The difficulty with this and other challenges of this type, from both sides, is determining who gets to judge whether the proof or evidence has achieved the goal. Many theists have themselves been convinced by arguments dismissed by atheists as fallacious, and vice versa.

[rusty]

Sorry to keep bugging you, but it is kind of fun!

Zzyzx wrote:

Apparently there is a bit of disagreement among religionists concerning the importance of “Satan”. Can’t religionists keep their super beings straight? Whose story is correct?

This is why I say the church needs to wake up. The proper understanding and application of scripture is/has been concealed by all the various sermons preached by the various pastors with various levels of understanding. On my second visit to a (small) church when I was seeking the truth I was asked to teach the teen sunday school class. Geeze,.... I was there to learn from them! I searched and searched for someone to take me by the hand and guide me to understanding, but I found no one. The church needs to wake up. There simply isn't enough Christians out there with a confident correct understanding of scripture.

Thank goodness I had the common sense to try very hard, and purposefully, to remain innocent during my trials and testing. I was assaulted on all sides, even by the mother of my children. By staying innocent of tit for tat, false accusation for false accusation, I kept my vision clear and my conscience free of guilt. I had to confirm the truth by living the application of it. Hopefully, I have grown in wisdom and understanding enough to make a positive contribution to the church, even though my criticism of the church is, at times, pretty harsh.

By the way, thinking of God as a "super being" is incorrect, rather God is a fact of life. He is part of nature. Have you noticed how the lesser creatures, the animals live at peace with God? They do not struggle internally with the concept of God. Nature is often cruel in this dying world, but the animals do not protest against God. I find peace within, by not protesting the fact of this crazy, fallen, ignorant, and self serving world that man has created by placing himself above the laws of nature. I have accepted the fact that man is not in touch with his creator. It is better to learn about, and love our Creator and have the common sense to stay innocent and do the right thing. Perhaps with practice it will come natural.

rusty wrote:
But out of the rebellious, God will draw out a people who WANT to serve Him. Who, with God's love and wisdom, will not perish forever, but will be raised tiumphant over those who chose not to believe God.

This is an interesting, self-serving story. Who made it up? How can anyone test its authenticity?

It seems obvious to me that something is wrong with at least some of the men (and women) in this world. Perhaps it is absolutely true that many men are not in touch with their creator and the laws of nature. Wouldn't it be great if we could live in a world where people loved one another? And didn't do evil things to one another. Wouldn't it be great if fathers loved the families and placed them under the love and care of the force of nature that created them? Wouldn't it be great if wisdom abounded?! Wouldn't it be great if man found the joy in doing the right thing rather than running after the self satisfaction of lusty things?

Don't forget to thank nature for the food on your table this Thanksgiving. Have a great one!
rusty

P.S. I think Thomas Jefferson was a theist who wrote a version of the Bible deleting all of the "magic tricks." I place the magic tricks on the back seat, too. I chalk them up to a loving God who had to "prove" his power to a stubborn, rebellious, and ignorant creature. We now have the completed word of God. Jesus finished it. If miracles happen today, I haven't seen any of the drastic kind, more power to God! But I have seen the healing power of love. God is love.

[McCulloch]

By the way, thinking of God as a "super being" is incorrect, rather God is a fact of life. He is part of nature.

I thought that most Christians believe that God created nature not that God is a part of nature. But then again maybe I've been listening to too many of those without the proper understanding and application of scripture.

Have you noticed how the lesser creatures, the animals live at peace with God? They do not struggle internally with the concept of God. Nature is often cruel in this dying world, but the animals do not protest against God.

They do not live at peace with God. They do not struggle with the concept of God. They have not even given God a thought.

It is better to learn about, and love our Creator and have the common sense to stay innocent and do the right thing.

How does one learn about and love the alleged Creator? Read and follow a book, produced by humans that it is claimed is the Word of God?

Wouldn't it be great if we could live in a world where people loved one another? And didn't do evil things to one another.

And no religion too. Imagine!

Wouldn't it be great if man found the joy in doing the right thing rather than running after the self satisfaction of lusty things?

Like the wonderful creatures who live at peace with God in nature?

[Zzyzx]

.

Sorry to keep bugging you, but it is kind of fun!

To me these exchanges are my opportunity to help religionists demonstrate to readers that their publicly announced beliefs, propagandas and arguments make no sense at all.

Apparently there is a bit of disagreement among religionists concerning the importance of “Satan”. Can’t religionists keep their super beings straight? Whose story is correct?

This is why I say the church needs to wake up.

If church members “woke up” and looked at reality rather than mystical “explanations” churches would, in my estimation, wither.

The proper understanding and application of scripture is/has been concealed by all the various sermons preached by the various pastors with various levels of understanding.

Is it that only the “fortunate few” KNOW the truth? Is this by direct revelation from gods?

Who is right when different religionists KNOW diametrically opposed understandings of scriptures? How can determination be made?

On my second visit to a (small) church when I was seeking the truth I was asked to teach the teen sunday school class. Geeze,.... I was there to learn from them! I searched and searched for someone to take me by the hand and guide me to understanding, but I found no one. The church needs to wake up. There simply isn't enough Christians out there with a confident correct understanding of scripture.

Perhaps that is because “scripture” makes no sense at all. It consists of stories told by illiterate Bronze Age storytellers, written by others decades or centuries later, variously translated, transcribed, modified, revised and rewritten. No wonder it is error prone and inconsistent – and in need of “interpretation”.

Thank goodness I had the common sense to try very hard, and purposefully, to remain innocent during my trials and testing. I was assaulted on all sides, even by the mother of my children. By staying innocent of tit for tat, false accusation for false accusation, I kept my vision clear and my conscience free of guilt.

A lot of people have gone through a divorce without making themselves out to be martyrs – me included. Some never seem to recover, but fixate on the experience (that they cannot change) instead of focusing upon things that they can change in their present life.

I had to confirm the truth by living the application of it. Hopefully, I have grown in wisdom and understanding enough to make a positive contribution to the church, even though my criticism of the church is, at times, pretty harsh.

Do you intentionally contribute to the efforts of non-believers to discredit religion?

By the way, thinking of God as a "super being" is incorrect, rather God is a fact of life. He is part of nature.

Are you saying that a proposed “omnipotent, omniscient” being is NOT superior?

How can the supposed creator of nature be a part of nature – by creating itself?

Have you noticed how the lesser creatures, the animals live at peace with God? They do not struggle internally with the concept of God.

Which creatures are “lesser”? How does one know that they “life at peace with god”?

Nature is often cruel in this dying world, but the animals do not protest against God.

“Cruelty” is a human opinion, god is a matter of human opinion, death is simply the end of life (it is neither opinion nor is it cruel).

Religionists often “see” cause-and-effect when there is no evidence of correlation.

I find peace within, by not protesting the fact of this crazy, fallen, ignorant, and self serving world that man has created by placing himself above the laws of nature.

It is good to meet someone with a positive outlook on life.

I have accepted the fact that man is not in touch with his creator. It is better to learn about, and love our Creator and have the common sense to stay innocent and do the right thing. Perhaps with practice it will come natural.

Perhaps this makes sense . . . . . .?

It seems obvious to me that something is wrong with at least some of the men (and women) in this world. Perhaps it is absolutely true that many men are not in touch with their creator and the laws of nature.

Those who claim to be “in touch with their creator” don’t seem to show any evidence of being less “wrong” than regular people. In fact, some of the most famous “in touch” claimants appear to be a bit hypocritical and/or delusional.

Wouldn't it be great if we could live in a world where people loved one another? And didn't do evil things to one another.

Yes. I fault religious competition for being divisive. Christians rail against other Christians and denounce them as being wrong (as you are prone to do), Christians denounce non-believers and those of competing beliefs; other religions denounce Christianity – and so it goes – for millennia.

Competition often leads to distrust – to conflict – to hostility – to warfare.

Perhaps the world would be a more pleasant place without the evil influence and divisiveness of competing religions.

Wouldn't it be great if fathers loved the families and placed them under the love and care of the force of nature that created them?

Is there any evidence that religious fathers are more loving and protective of their families than non-religious fathers? Evidence please.

Wouldn't it be great if wisdom abounded?!

Yes, it would seem as though wisdom would be highly desirable. Is that why advancement of knowledge is resisted by religion when new information disputes the ignorance and limitations of Bronze Age storytellers?

Wouldn't it be great if man found the joy in doing the right thing rather than running after the self satisfaction of lusty things?

Are you speaking for yourself or just for other people and excluding yourself?

I think Thomas Jefferson was a theist who wrote a version of the Bible deleting all of the "magic tricks."

The “Jefferson Bible” was devoid of magic tricks and much Christian lore.

I place the magic tricks on the back seat, too. I chalk them up to a loving God who had to "prove" his power to a stubborn, rebellious, and ignorant creature.

I chalk them up to the imagination of self-serving churchmen seeking to promote their religion in competition with other religions.

We now have the completed word of God. Jesus finished it.

Does the bible represent the “completed word of god”? Which of the 75 or more versions of the bible would that be?

If miracles happen today, I haven't seen any of the drastic kind, more power to God! But I have seen the healing power of love. God is love.

Love exists without gods. Non-believers are capable of loving one another. Is there any evidence that religious people are more loving than others? It seems to me as though they are more intolerant. How can that be?

[rusty]

Zzyzx wrote:

Is it that only the “fortunate few” KNOW the truth? Is this by direct revelation from gods?

The church has had its ups and downs throughout history, you know that! Martin Luther stood against the entire Catholic church. Some of the "fortunate few" were declared heretics and burned at the stake. I apologize for the ignorance of those who did NOT know the truth. I apologize for so few "fortunate few" throughout history. The church has always had its share of corrupt men. It is necessary for the individual to find the truth himself so that he will not be deceived by the corrupt.

Are you saying that a proposed “omnipotent, omniscient” being is NOT superior?
How can the supposed creator of nature be a part of nature – by creating itself?

Moses asked the name of God. God said, "I am." He just "is." He is part of the environment that he created. The problem is man has separated himself from the natural laws of God that went along with the entire creation. Man has allowed himself to be deceived. God doesn't want to trick anyone, He just wants to bring people back into a correct relationship with Him,...before they perish. And by their own freewill. Choose to love God and his righteousness.

Love exists without gods. Non-believers are capable of loving one another. Is there any evidence that religious people are more loving than others? It seems to me as though they are more intolerant. How can that be?

Which version of love exists without God? Man's version?
What gives man the impetus to love his neighbor and why don't all neighbors love one another? Perhaps they do, except they have different versions of love. Silly!

Love righteousness. Love wisdom. Love God. Love love.
rusty