Defining Evolution

[Fisherking]

Is there a definition for evolution we could use as a starting point for any debate about evolution?
Maybe we could put it in the definition section if a consensus on this forum could be reached.
I am finding it impossible to have a coherent debate about evolution without first defining what it is we are debating.

i.e.:

Evolution- ___ ____ __ _________ _______ ______ __________ _________ _ ___.

[Beto]

I'm sure you mean biological evolution, for which I like the Encarta definition: "Theory of development from earlier forms: the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life. According to this theory, natural variation in the genetic material of a population favors reproduction by some individuals more than others, so that over the generations all members of the population come to possess the favorable traits."

[Cathar1950]

Of course there is social evolution and even the evolution of religion.
It simply means change, if you like.
But I think your asking for a definition because you can't argue coherently about evolution. It is a ruse. You know what evolution is all about and you just don't like it because you seem to think it causes problems with one of the many views or definitions of Christianity. In this case your definition of biblical truth is being threatened and you are unable to defend it.
Can you give us a definition of God that all will agree with or a definition of Christian that will meet all the varieties? It is like arguing against the flow of a river.

[Fisherking]

Ok, so far we have:

biological evolution- "Theory of development from earlier forms: the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life.

evolution - It simply means change

[Undertow]

A change in the allele frequencies for a population over time. This encompasess all scales of evolutionary change, including microevolution - evolution below the level of species - and macroevolution - evolution at or above the level of species. We know that both of these scales exist because we've seen them happen. It's just how deep you want to go into macro that gets you conflict with people who take a more literal view of genesis.

[Furrowed Brow]

Ok, so far we have:

biological evolution- "Theory of development from earlier forms: the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life.

evolution - It simply means change

I think you in danger of perpetuating a semantic muddle here Fisherking. There is the theory of evolution. Beto's definition broadly defines that. Cat's simply making the point that the word "evolution" is a synonym for change, like it is a synonym for advance, development, emergence, growth, rise and so forth.

The theory of evolution is clearly defined. And it is over the theory of evolution that that evoltuionists and anti evoltutionist tend to fall out. If you are looking for a clear defintion of the theory of evolution then fine. But the word evolution has a life outside and prioir to Darwin's theory.

The words evolution and evolve first gained usage in English in the 17th C. In those days Evolve meant "make more complex", and evolution referred to a physical movement. Specifically a tactical wheeling manoeuvre of troops or ships.

[Fisherking]

Ok, so far we have:

biological evolution- "Theory of development from earlier forms: the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life.

evolution - It simply means change

I think you in danger of perpetuating a semantic muddle here Fisherking. There is the theory of evolution. Beto's definition broadly defines that. Cat's simply making the point that the word "evolution" is a synonym for change, like it is a synonym for advance, development, emergence, growth, rise and so forth.

The theory of evolution is clearly defined. And it is over the theory of evolution that that evoltuionists and anti evoltutionist tend to fall out. If you are looking for a clear defintion of the theory of evolution then fine. But the word evolution has a life outside and prioir to Darwin's theory.

The words evolution and evolve first gained usage in English in the 17th C. In those days Evolve meant "make more complex", and evolution referred to a physical movement. Specifically a tactical wheeling manoeuvre of troops or ships.

Thank you for the reply FB. Why then do so many people leave off the word "theory" when they are talking about evolution? How can any debates/discussions about the theory of evolution be fruitful when "evolution" (Cat's definition) is often times used synonomously with "theory of evolution". They are two different definitions with two different meanings.

The definition for TOE Beto discribed: "Theory of development from earlier forms: the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life"

My mother is an earlier form of life than I. I do not think there is anyone that would disagree with this definition either. All species do develop from earlier forms of life. I get the sense though that the theory of evolution means something more to a lot of people. The word "evolution" also means theory of evolution to many. For example, when someone asks " do you believe in evolution?", you may have a picture in your mind of evolution that looks nothing like the picture I have in mine. If you and I were to have a debate on evolution, what is it we would debate? Would we be debating evolution or the theory of evolution as defined above? I doubt it. The debate would move into other areas that are theoretical, subject to interpretation, and worthy of debate.

Cathar made an interesting analogy with Christianity and Evolution:

Can you give us a definition of God that all will agree with or a definition of Christian that will meet all the varieties? It is like arguing against the flow of a river

The Theory of Evolution seems to be evolving into some type of belief system and when one tries to argue againsts it, "It is like arguing against the flow of a river". It means something different to everyone.

[QED]

The Theory of Evolution seems to be evolving into some type of belief system and when one tries to argue against it, "It is like arguing against the flow of a river". It means something different to everyone.

The Theory of Evolution is on par with the Theory of General Relativity in that it is the best supported model for the explanation of pertinent data. General Relativity would, I'm sure, be portrayed as a "belief system" if it militated against a Creator-God. But it doesn't, (as far as I'm aware) so is left alone by the creationist.

You would also find yourself "arguing against the flow of a river" if you disagreed with Einstein. That doesn't mean you can't try to swim against the tide, it just means you need a better model (one that makes more testable predictions, explains more observed features).

[Cathar1950]

The Theory of Evolution seems to be evolving into some type of belief system and when one tries to argue againsts it, "It is like arguing against the flow of a river". It means something different to everyone.

That maybe true for some especially those that don't work in field were evolution is a fundamental part of their study such as biology. But for most sciences evolution doesn't mean something different to everyone. Americans might be like that as a in the ones that are not scientists or have problems because of religious doctrines. But not all Christian have problems with evolution and some agree on the principle better then they can agree on dogma.
To the poorly informed it means something different to everyone but not to those that understand the concepts. It is hardly a belief system any more then gravity theory is a belief system or theories in Quantum Mechanics. I just wanted you to know that I think you misunderstood my comment.
It seems to me that evolution is about change and the mechanics of change.
I think your staw man is not full of enough staw to start a fire.

[Young McGrath]

Let's look also at what it's not:

-It's not the man from monkey/ape theory.
-It's not a theory of the origin of life.
-It's not an atheist device to throw out religion.
-It's not only significant to Biology: it affects basically every branch of science there is.