Closet Atheist

[mjmr89]

I can't do it - I can't come out of the closet as an Atheist. I have been raised an Atheist. I was given the chance to go to church, but denied it; I've always been a very logical person. Anyway, I became involved at an early age (5) with the BSA - more specifically, Cub Scouts. Well, I advanced to the BSA soon enough and climbed even higher until last year when I achieved the rank of Eagle Scout. All this time my Atheism was kept pretty quiet - only my parents and two friends. On the Internet, though - I was free. I could express my feelings (mainly on "Current Events" of GameFAQs.com) without fear of being kicked out of Scouts. Now I have moved on to college - I just completed my third week.

I was surprised, though, to find so many people around me active in this "Intervarsity" organization. It seems that it's whole mission is to convert, and change the campus to suit it's needs. This upsets me, very much. But they're all over my floor - and I find I've been socializing with them the most. The problem is, now I'm really stuck in the closet. These intervarsity guys (and others around here) know about my Eagle rank and I don't know how they'd feel if I revealed it. Also, theres the whole thing with them trying to save my soul if I did come out of the Atheism closet. So that's my problem... it just really sucks living like this, I want to be open about it but I can't without fear of losing some of my only friends around here (I'm pretty shy). I don't know why I'm writing about this... I kinda just need to let it out. Vent.

I don't really know much about this board as to whether it will jump down my Atheist throat or not - but I'm not asking for a fight... but I'm just confused. Come out of my Atheist closet and face the possibility of losing my friends (or have them continually try to save me) or just live in here... alone. I also kind of want to be a part of the apparant movement coming of Atheists in the future.

So that's it.

[bernee51]

I can't do it - I can't come out of the closet as an Atheist. I have been raised an Atheist. I was given the chance to go to church, but denied it; I've always been a very logical person. Anyway, I became involved at an early age (5) with the BSA - more specifically, Cub Scouts. Well, I advanced to the BSA soon enough and climbed even higher until last year when I achieved the rank of Eagle Scout. All this time my Atheism was kept pretty quiet - only my parents and two friends. On the Internet, though - I was free. I could express my feelings (mainly on "Current Events" of GameFAQs.com) without fear of being kicked out of Scouts. Now I have moved on to college - I just completed my third week.

I was surprised, though, to find so many people around me active in this "Intervarsity" organization. It seems that it's whole mission is to convert, and change the campus to suit it's needs. This upsets me, very much. But they're all over my floor - and I find I've been socializing with them the most. The problem is, now I'm really stuck in the closet. These intervarsity guys (and others around here) know about my Eagle rank and I don't know how they'd feel if I revealed it. Also, theres the whole thing with them trying to save my soul if I did come out of the Atheism closet. So that's my problem... it just really sucks living like this, I want to be open about it but I can't without fear of losing some of my only friends around here (I'm pretty shy). I don't know why I'm writing about this... I kinda just need to let it out. Vent.

I don't really know much about this board as to whether it will jump down my Atheist throat or not - but I'm not asking for a fight... but I'm just confused. Come out of my Atheist closet and face the possibility of losing my friends (or have them continually try to save me) or just live in here... alone. I also kind of want to be a part of the apparant movement coming of Atheists in the future.

So that's it.

My son is finding himself in a similar situation. Fortunately we live in a country which does not set out to condemn those who do not believe. He tends to wear his atheism like a badge of honour.

Are there any other groups at your college that may be more sympathetic e.g Humanists. Do you have a really close friend who has got to know you quite well and realizes that you are at heart a regular guy? If so, would you feel comfortable discussing your dilemma with them?

I can only suggest - take your time. Eventually a 'soul mate' unbeliever will come into your radar. In the meantime - feel comfortable hanging out here.

good luck.

[Zzyzx]

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Hi Mjmr,

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the real world and to early adulthood.

While no one can tell you how to deal with your situation, many can relate opinions and experience that may help you to decide upon a course of action. Some might advise you to hide your true position and others might advise to announce it loudly. I would say something between. Be true to yourself, but do not unnecessarily ruffle others.

I live in the Bible Belt (Arkansas Ozarks) where one is judged as much on the basis of religion as on personal merit. Of the people I interact with regularly, about 80 or 90 percent are religious (many strongly religious). Some of them are friends, though close friends are generally not consumed with religion.

Those who know me at all well know that I do not subscribe to theories of supernaturalism. I do not go out of my way to make anyone aware, but neither do I do anything to disguise that fact. When “god talk” occurs in conversations (as it often does with believers) I do not respond as long as it is incidental. That is not unnoticed. If such talk becomes a focus I forcefully change the subject or I disengage. If the topic comes up repeatedly with the same person I let them know that I do not share their beliefs and do not care to discuss the matter.

Very seldom does anyone attempt to “convert” me – because that is obviously not an available option. I live by the conviction that, “The world treats you exactly as you tell it to treat you”. If you are definitely NOT open to listening to commercials about being “saved” from imaginary “damnation”, it takes very little for people to understand the message. If, however, you appear to waver a bit the proselytizing (religious advertising) continues.

For those who attempt to be insistent, “I am not interested in discussing the matter” conveys the message. If that is not adequate, “What part of ‘not interested’ do you fail to understand?” is my next level of response.

One can learn to associate with people of all beliefs and lifestyles in an attitude of mutual respect – IF we maintain our position and allow others the opportunity to do likewise. However, some percentage of the population will reject anyone who does not share their belief in invisible super beings. Others cannot contain their impulse to “convert sinners”. So be it. They have a problem. I have no desire to associate with such people because it would require that I either fake a belief (lie) or listen to their “witnessing” (suffer). I am not inclined to lie or to suffer.

Those who do not follow the crowd tend to develop strength of their convictions and to take responsibility for their decisions. Some non-conformists, however, become isolated or resentful (protective). I find the former course of action preferable.

If you agree with these ideas and wish to pursue them further (or if you want a bit of reinforcement occasionally), please feel free to send a PM.

[The Corinthian]

I can see that you are in a really tough situation, and I would only know what to do if I were in that situation myself, knowing all the factors. Luckily, Zzyzx and bernee51 gives really good advice.

While no one can tell you how to deal with your situation, many can relate opinions and experience that may help you to decide upon a course of action. Some might advise you to hide your true position and others might advise to announce it loudly. I would say something between. Be true to yourself, but do not unnecessarily ruffle others.

Are there any other groups at your college that may be more sympathetic e.g Humanists. Do you have a really close friend who has got to know you quite well and realizes that you are at heart a regular guy? If so, would you feel comfortable discussing your dilemma with them?

I can only suggest - take your time. Eventually a 'soul mate' unbeliever will come into your radar. In the meantime - feel comfortable hanging out here.

I would suggest, as bernee said, that you should try to explore if there are like minded groups or people at your college, and try getting in contact with them so you aren't socially dependent on the Intervarsity guys. I think this could give you a lot of freedom to be who you are. But give it some time, and get to know the place, before and if you decide to come out of the atheist-closet.

I don't really know much about this board as to whether it will jump down my Atheist throat or not - but I'm not asking for a fight

Trust me, you don't have to be afraid of this here. There are many atheists on this forum who will support you if you need it, and btw, this forum has got to be the most civil and respectful forum I have ever come across (without it being over-moderated). This is not an "Us versus Them" forum. So please feel at home, and feel free to join the discussions and debates. I think you will get a lot out of it.

[Fallibleone]

... but I'm just confused. Come out of my Atheist closet and face the possibility of losing my friends (or have them continually try to save me) or just live in here... alone.

I don't really have that much to offer that the previous excellent posts have not covered. Just this, perhaps - you are not alone

[mjmr89]

Thanks guys . I think I'm just going to bide my time for a while... I don't think I'm so afraid of what these Intervarsity guys are gonna think - the only thing reallly holding me back is the threat of losing my Eagle rank. I don't want word of my atheism to somehow reach my home town or my council =(. Thanks again guys!

[Vladd44]

For those who attempt to be insistent, “I am not interested in discussing the matter” conveys the message. If that is not adequate, “What part of ‘not interested’ do you fail to understand?” is my next level of response.

If that fails, just tell them you want to talk about the part of the bible where Jesus meets Winnie the Pooh, follow it up rapidly with an apology about how you have trouble keeping your fairy tales straight.

[Zzyzx]

.

Thanks guys . I think I'm just going to bide my time for a while... I don't think I'm so afraid of what these Intervarsity guys are gonna think - the only thing reallly holding me back is the threat of losing my Eagle rank. I don't want word of my atheism to somehow reach my home town or my council. Thanks again guys!

There is some merit in your concern about the Boy Scouts taking action against (or excluding) young men because of their religious beliefs, or lack thereof. That issue is being addressed in courts. A comprehensive discussion of the matter is presented at http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/517047.html

One of the statements presented is:

In a decision with significant implications, Orange County Superior Court Judge Richard O. Frazee Sr. ruled in June of 1992 that the Boy Scouts could not exclude the twins "because of their beliefs, or lack of them." More shocking still, the state supreme court refused to hear a petition from the Orange County Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

Are there instances of Eagle Scouts having the rank that they EARNED “taken away” (I don’t know exactly what this means)?

[Goat]

Thanks guys . I think I'm just going to bide my time for a while... I don't think I'm so afraid of what these Intervarsity guys are gonna think - the only thing reallly holding me back is the threat of losing my Eagle rank. I don't want word of my atheism to somehow reach my home town or my council =(. Thanks again guys!

Is that so important to you, really? Is it important enough to you to lead a double life?
Does it take away from the fact you had earned it to begin with?

This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.