Is Morality not a Sin?

[Nameless]

American Heritage Dictionary
mo·ral·i·ty
1.) The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
2.) A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.

WordNet
morality
noun
1.) concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct [ant: immorality]
2.) motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: ethical motive]

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That said, morality seems to be the attribution/judgement of things and people as 'good' and 'evil/bad'.
Was not, according to the mythology, the first 'sin' disobedience in 'consuming' the (fruits of the tree of the) "Knowledge of Good and Evil" to "Be like us" ('God')?
Is not the practice of those 'ill gotten gains' a sin?
Is this 'judgement' of 'god's' creation an abominable act of Pride? Another 'sin'? After all, who are we to sit in judgement of god's creation?
"Vanity, vanity.."

It would seem that Xtians especially would avoid being judgemental on these grounds, yet, it often seems that quite the opposite is true.
Generally, it appears that hypocrisy only hurts the hypocrite.

[Greatest I Am]

American Heritage Dictionary
mo·ral·i·ty
1.) The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
2.) A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.

WordNet
morality
noun
1.) concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct [ant: immorality]
2.) motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: ethical motive]

#############

That said, morality seems to be the attribution/judgement of things and people as 'good' and 'evil/bad'.
Was not, according to the mythology, the first 'sin' disobedience in 'consuming' the (fruits of the tree of the) "Knowledge of Good and Evil" to "Be like us" ('God')?
Is not the practice of those 'ill gotten gains' a sin?
Is this 'judgement' of 'god's' creation an abominable act of Pride? Another 'sin'? After all, who are we to sit in judgement of god's creation?


"Vanity, vanity.."

It would seem that Xtians especially would avoid being judgemental on these grounds, yet, it often seems that quite the opposite is true.
Generally, it appears that hypocrisy only hurts the hypocrite.

Christians, as well as probably everyone else, happily judge on a dayly basis. How else would we know right from wrong.

We judge what we see, read and hear.
As Eve judged in the beginning, we do now.
How else would we learn of God?
Not judging puts us in the garden of ignorance where we follow God without knowing why. Ignorance is bliss but not profitable in knowing God.

Does God want blissful sheep or would He prefer humans that know exactly why God is so good and deserving of our adoration.

I think that He prefers those who bow with true respect for what He is rather than those who bow because those around them bow.

Regards
DL

[Flail]

The greatest example of pridefulness is believing and acting as if we know the 'absolute truth about God' or adopting a belief system as if we were somehow privy to God herself.

[Nameless]

Christians, as well as probably everyone else, happily judge on a dayly basis. How else would we know right from wrong.

Perhaps 'discrimination' would be a better word, it implies not judgement, a simple pragmatic choice (it you believe in choice). I shall do this because it will uplift man, I will not do this because it will be fruitlessly destructive. No need to even bring up the judgemental (and completely subjective) terms of 'good' and 'bad'.

We judge what we see, read and hear.

Most, perhaps. (See above)

As Eve judged in the beginning, we do now.
How else would we learn of God?

I recall nothing in the story of Eve 'judging' anything.
According to the story, did not they have a simple and direct 'relationship' with god? God went a'walkin' in the garden, enjoying the cool of the eve-ning... etc.. did he not visit with his buds?

Not judging puts us in the garden of ignorance where we follow God without knowing why.

Why, do you think, your "garden of ignorance" was referred to as "paradise", and why was expulsion a 'punishment', then? You are making no sense to me. It was/is a 'Garden of Innocence'. Only would the egoically prideful sinner confuse 'Innocence' with 'ignorance'. 'Salvation', 'liberation', 'enlightenment'... is a return to that place of 'innocence'.

Ignorance is bliss but not profitable in knowing God

See above.

Does God want blissful sheep or would He prefer humans that know exactly why God is so good and deserving of our adoration.

First, it is your assumption that god is 'good'. Any thorough and thoughtful reading of the old testament would disabuse you of that notion.
And as for what god 'wants' (if anything), you'll have to ask It. I don't think that rhetorical and hypothetical assumptions will be fruitful.
I would think that a god with 'needs' and 'wants' and 'preferences' is no more than a god made in our own image (but imaginatively 'super-fied'), and no real god at all.

I think that He prefers those who bow with true respect for what He is rather than those who bow because those around them bow.

See above. A 'god' needing worship and bowing is a neurotic and puny god at best! Another 'mirror reflection' of humanity, and unenlightened concepts.
And to top it off, you seem to be speaking for your god! "You" think that 'He' prefers.. Is that not self-riteous hubris? The 'sin' of Pride? But that 'is' what you seem to be defending, so... (shrugs) .. and your screen name tends to indicate such, also.. Obviously, you are not a Xtian?

[Nameless]

The greatest example of pridefulness is believing and acting as if we know the 'absolute truth about God' or adopting a belief system as if we were somehow privy to God herself.

Very good.
Belief = Pride

[Greatest I Am]

The greatest example of pridefulness is believing and acting as if we know the 'absolute truth about God' or adopting a belief system as if we were somehow privy to God herself.

If nothing was trusted by people as truth then what do you have chaos of thought. We would still be living in caves because no one would believe anything. We would all be doing our own thing and there would be no organization to our societies.

Any that assume the position of God on any topic know they are assuming and remain flexible enough in their thinking to change with new information. We do not speak for God but only interpret what we have heard or read.

One truth I do know is that God is non corporeal and sexless.

If none tried to think like God then we would all be Godless.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

Nameless

Your pride is causing you to judge me quite severely and wrongly. You are even trying to label me. Tisk , tisk, tisk.

Using the word discriminate instead of judging is splitting hairs. Both words lead to judging on whatever criteria is present and choosing one over the other. Same thing. In these judgments good and bad are always part of the decision.

Eve’s judging or choosing to believe what God was saying as compared to what the talking snake was saying was a judgment or choice or discrimination, whatever word you prefer. I should point out that I do not believe in talking snakes and do not read the Bible literally. No fish that spit men out after three days either.

Paradise is not a paradise without knowledge. Man without knowledge would reduce man to just another animal in the field. Not knowing or caring for much of anything including his fellow man.

Name any topic that you could discuss that has no good and evil aspect. I will be surprised if you can. So what would we talk about or do in this paradise if good and evil are not known.

One of the prime ingredients to enlightenment is knowledge. How then can we attain this lofty perch without knowledge?

If God created us in His image then we can give God all the attributes that humans have and then bring them to their maximum and we may have a crude rendering of God.

If you read the Bible literally then I agree that God looks bad.
In fact God looks like a looser who can’t get things right and kills man for this fact in His misguided anger. Breaks His own law of killing in a genocidal flood that changes nothing and makes Him look even more incompetent This is why believers are waiting for His return to earth to fix what He has screwed up in the first place. Who would want such an incompetent God. Not me.

God is pleased with man and our choices that is why He has not interfered with us.
His first commands to us were to multiply and learn of good and evil.
We are doing both well.

I am glad that you like my name though. When God appears, I will gladly retire it so that He can use it. Why do only fundamentalists bother me about my name. Annoying is part of their system I guess. Your nose is too large. How’s that.

You seem to be confused about knowledge. Take away your knowledge about things and what is left of you?

Regards
DL

[Nameless]

Nameless

Your pride is causing you to judge me quite severely and wrongly. You are even trying to label me. Tisk , tisk, tisk.

I'm simply tempted to ignore the rest of your response after reading this bit of crap. But I'll read on and see if there is anything worthy of response and of greater value and on topic than 'this', unworthy of response.

Using the word discriminate instead of judging is splitting hairs.

I think if you consulted a dictionary, you would find a difference in definitions. Perhaps. Your easy dismissal is noted.

Both words lead to judging on whatever criteria is present and choosing one over the other. Same thing. In these judgments good and bad are always part of the decision.

In your opinion, perhaps.

Eve’s judging or choosing

Typical Xtian 'stretch'. YOU are playing fast and loose with the term 'judge'. I dont play that game, hence my offering of a dictionary, two actually, definition of 'morality' Need I do the same for 'judgement', and the particular definition that I am referring to?

Paradise is not a paradise without knowledge.

Pretty wild assertion. Can you support it? I say... BS! If you tell me right now that you are sufficiently knowledgeable, and are presently in 'Paradise' (since gaining sufficient 'knowledge', than I'll allow you to present your personal experience as potential evidence in support of your (oh so assured) ass-ertion. Otherwise, I suggest that you are speaking out of your rectum.

Man without knowledge would reduce man to just another animal in the field. Not knowing or caring for much of anything including his fellow man.

Another opinion presented as 'fact'. Care to define the (amount of) knowledge that shifts the balance to something beyond 'mere animal' and transformes common 'reality' into your 'Paradise'? Evidence and history are against your illconsidered and unsupported ass-ertion.

Name any topic that you could discuss that has no good and evil aspect. I will be surprised if you can.

TRAP WARNING! TRAP WARNING!!
When 'good' and 'evil' are so absolutely subjective, you are free to see it everywhere you like, ESPECIALLY in every and anything I might answer to your 'challenge'. Forget it.
Next..

So what would we talk about or do in this paradise if good and evil are not known.

Hahahhaa! So, you are saying/admitting that you don't know what is done in 'innocence', what is 'done' in 'Paradise', yet you have so much to say about it; whence comes all your expertise?

One of the prime ingredients to enlightenment is knowledge.

One more time? You are obviously not 'enlightened' yet you make these unfounded and ignorant assertions such as the above. Why?
Bye the way, you are again, incorrect.

How then can we attain this lofty perch without knowledge?

There are many paths, practice one and find your own 'answers'. The 'experience' can only come from 'within'.

If God created us in His image then we can give God all the attributes that humans have and then bring them to their maximum and we may have a crude rendering of God.

That is a big 'if', and only a fool would consider it literally, anyway. You merely make excuses for the vanity of creating your god in your own prideful image. Faugh!

If you read the Bible literally then I agree that God looks bad.

Hahahahha, you would have to be a master of spin to make that biblical psychotic monster look good! Hahahahahahah.. But it is ignorance and has nothing to do woth 'god', just the authors' imaginings and vanity (for the most part).

In fact God looks like a looser who can’t get things right and kills man for this fact in His misguided anger. Breaks His own law of killing in a genocidal flood that changes nothing and makes Him look even more incompetent This is why believers are waiting for His return to earth to fix what He has screwed up in the first place. Who would want such an incompetent God. Not me.

So you are waiting for the monster to return and fix his monstrous errors and gain some semblance of 'sanity'?? He, according to you, screwed up royally and you are waiting for him to fix it all? You have no 'relationship in the least, with this 'god' of your imagination, other than IN you imagination! Perhaps someday...

God is pleased with man and our choices that is why He has not interfered with us.

Yet above you accuse him of atrocity (genocide), is that, and all the rest of his biblical games (plagues, fire from 'heaven', pillars of salt, etc.. etc... etc......) Do you no longer consider this 'interference'?

His first commands to us were to multiply and learn of good and evil.

That is a lie, or, to be diplomatic, simple ignorance. Care to quote the reference where he 'commands' to "learn of good and evil"? You must be the 'devil'; turning 'sin', eating from and displaying the fruits of the forbidden 'Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil' into a 'command' from god!

We are doing both well.

You are, perhaps. But we need no more 'multiplying', and the rest is 'sin', for which, you have many excuses. You better hope that your 'god' doesn't come back to earth anytime soon! (He busy plagueing other planets in the meantime?)

You seem to be confused about knowledge.

Considering all you have written, you are again speaking of something with which you seem to have little experience...
Thank you for your response, though.
Have a nice day.

[Greatest I Am]

Nameless

It is true that I sometimes group my dictionary definitions rather loosely. This I tell you so that we don’t end up speaking to the way this Franglais strings words strangely sometime but I am getting better.

Paradise without knowledge.

If I am in Paradise, how do I know this fact.
I need the knowledge of what Paradise is. I need to know what Paradise is not.
I need to know what I is or what I is not .
I must know the qualities of Paradise.

You see that without all this knowledge, I could not even judge if I am in Paradise or not and if I see the alternative I can discriminate the difference and judge from there.

All knowledge has a good side and an evil side. Eve must have recognized this and thank God She made the right choice so that we could have enough knowledge to discus this issue here.
Without Her we could not.

Knowledge is what makes us better than baser animals.
Language is probably the key that allows us to understand infinitely more commands and understand fully our environment in toto.
The Bible tells us that knowledge is what makes us like one of us knowing good and evil. God‘s words.
Take away knowledge and we cannot get closer to God. He is the one telling us not I.


“ Hahahhaa! So, you are saying/admitting that you don't know what is done in 'innocence', what is 'done' in 'Paradise', yet you have so much to say about it; whence comes all your expertise?”

One small touch of the Godhead is all I can claim but what a touch. Much of the rest, like all of us, I dithered out for myself.
I can’t speak to what is done in innocence. I’m not certain what you mean here. Perhaps later.
Paradise I can speak to in a general way.

God is Perfect. He has created a Perfect environment for man to reproduce in and to learn of good and evil. His first two commands. We are doing this well and He is pleased or He would end a fruitless work.
We then are in part of paradise. We are in a Perfect environment. What could possibly be better. I say this after just coming out of the hospital and getting a 14 inch scar on my now nicely fused back. All is Perfect in the larger sense even as some die elsewhere. We, like God need to back away to see us from His vantage point. Then it becomes easier to see the larger Perfection.


I do not wait for God to come and fix what ain’t broke.
I believe you may have misread. I was saying the opposite. My writing stile may have thrown you off.


“Yet above you accuse him of atrocity (genocide), is that, and all the rest of his biblical games (plagues, fire from 'heaven', pillars of salt, etc.. etc... etc......) Do you no longer consider this 'interference'?”

As noted , only those who read the Bible literally will see these inappropriate actions.
I do not.

Your language towards me is disrespectful. Your criticism harsh.
I don't mind that so much if you would include some information to refute my claims. You do not . You just say that I am wrong and do not supply your version of what is right.

If you are to be so useless to me while using abusive language then fuck right off.
If you want to learn something then change your stupid aptitude.

Regards
DL

[Nameless]

Nameless

It is true that I sometimes group my dictionary definitions rather loosely. This I tell you so that we don’t end up speaking to the way this Franglais strings words strangely sometime but I am getting better.

As long as we are using words in an attempt to communicate, given that we all are uniquely different perspectives, the main work of pholosophy and interpersonal communication in general is to have mutual understanding of the meanings of the words used. An agreed upon (at least for the duration of the conversation) definition of a word for mutual use, or use different words. After all, the point of an attempt to communicate is to share one's perspective with another, to enjoy a 'different view' and, perhaps, find value therein. The more accurately the 'other' understands what we intend in our words, the closer we come to actual intended communication. When I mention definitions, it isn't cause I'm being an a$$, but trying to be clear for the benefit of all reading.

Paradise without knowledge.

If I am in Paradise, how do I know this fact.

You'll know. It's that different! *__-

I need the knowledge of what Paradise is. I need to know what Paradise is not.

If you know what it is, you automatically know what it is not. And vise versa.

I need to know what I is or what I is not .

God bless you on your quest for 'Truth/Reality'.

I must know the qualities of Paradise.

You only think so.

All knowledge has a good side and an evil side.

Only from your perspective. I don't share it. From my perspective, 'knowledge is knowledge'. How that 'knowledge' manifests in the 'real world' can be comfortable to an in-divi-dual (the common criterion for 'good') to uncomfortable (the common criterion for 'bad' or 'evil'); a whole spectrum. Unmanifested 'knowledge' is nothing more than a 'thought', a 'memory', with no 'qualifiers'.

Knowledge is what makes us better than baser animals.

Vanity, vanity..

Language is probably the key that allows us to understand infinitely more commands and understand fully our environment in toto.

'Language', or 'communication in general' is far from an exclusively human trait. And there is no scientist in his right mind that would say that we "understand fully our environment in toto."

The Bible tells us that knowledge is what makes us like one of us knowing good and evil. God‘s words.

Yes, by implication. We are warned AGAINST THAT KNOWLEDGE, prohibited. But, I guess that you 'know' better than your 'god'? More vanity...

Take away knowledge and we cannot get closer to God. He is the one telling us not I.

How can you have this so 'bass-ackwards'?
Most Xtians would say that disobedience to 'god' would distance you from your god, but you, you, somehow manage to turn an obvious prohibition into an invitation. How that 'goddamned Pride' does deceive us (if we 'believe' it's subtle lies)!

“ Hahahhaa! So, you are saying/admitting that you don't know what is done in 'innocence', what is 'done' in 'Paradise', yet you have so much to say about it; whence comes all your expertise?”

One small touch of the Godhead is all I can claim but what a touch. Much of the rest, like all of us, I dithered out for myself.
I can’t speak to what is done in innocence. I’m not certain what you mean here. Perhaps later.
Paradise I can speak to in a general way.

There is nothing that can be 'dithered out' about 'god'. God is not a 'thing' to be 'known' intellectually, 'dithered'.
Is this "neophyte neurosis"? One tiniest of glimpses, the slightest peripheral 'flash' (of the 'fruits' of your 'practice') and you now know all the 'Truth'? Seeing one cell from a leaf does not equate to understanding entire galaxy of it's origin. But, it is a beginning. Little by little.. keep listening. Beware Pride which will halt all 'progress' at your attachment to that one 'flash'. That slight 'taste' is good inspiration/indication that you are in a good position to continue your journey into that 'light'.
You can't speak of Paradise in ANY way, until you are 'living there', NOW! All else is 'idle speculation' (remember what the bible says about that? It says AVOID it!), again creating a 'god' in our own image.

God is Perfect. He has created a Perfect environment for man to reproduce in and to learn of good and evil. His first two commands. We are doing this well and He is pleased or He would end a fruitless work.
We then are in part of paradise. We are in a Perfect environment. What could possibly be better. I say this after just coming out of the hospital and getting a 14 inch scar on my now nicely fused back. All is Perfect in the larger sense even as some die elsewhere. We, like God need to back away to see us from His vantage point. Then it becomes easier to see the larger Perfection.

And part of that Perfection is people judging that Perfection as good and judging that Perfection as evil according to our nature, also Perfect. So, your so called 'evil' is as Perfect as your 'good'. Then what would be to point of the whole game of 'judging', but for ego strokes, Pride?

I do not wait for God to come and fix what ain’t broke.
I believe you may have misread. I was saying the opposite. My writing stile may have thrown you off.

Quite possible.

“Yet above you accuse him of atrocity (genocide), is that, and all the rest of his biblical games (plagues, fire from 'heaven', pillars of salt, etc.. etc... etc......) Do you no longer consider this 'interference'?”

As noted , only those who read the Bible literally will see these inappropriate actions.
I do not.

I see that you have used your spin machine on the prohibition of eating the 'fruit' of the tree. It is prideful ignorant justification and rationalization (excuse), of your sin and nothing more. I can see how you can twist all that 'ugly behavior' tp fit your 'concepts'. That is what a 'belief' riddled mind does. It is still prideful ignorant vanity.. part of your Perfection just as god is making you right Now!
I have no doubt that you can 'spin' the entire book to your satisfaction.

Your language towards me is disrespectful. Your criticism harsh.

I have no need to couch my language in 'nice' terms. I am giving you the 'respect' of my analloyed honesty. I imagine that (the alleged) Jesus 'hurt some delicate prides' also. Truth is not 'comfortable', perhgaps that is enough reason for you to 'judge it as 'evil'?

I don't mind that so much if you would include some information to refute my claims. You do not .

You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute. You have not yet done that.

You just say that I am wrong and do not supply your version of what is right.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that you were 'wrong'. Nor do I claim to 'know' what is 'right'.

If you are to be so useless to me while using abusive language then xxxx right off.
If you want to learn something then change your stupid aptitude.

If these words that I offer are so 'useless' to you, why would you possibly display the need to respond?
That is just the egoic Pride responding after being uncovered!
Shining the 'light' on hidden egoic Prideful 'sin' almost always (probably always) garners response in the same fashion; anger, attack, defend, distort, deny, crucify,... anything to turn that darn light OFF! and leave Pride/sin in quiet control of your delusions... standing between you and god! That is the only 'devil/adversary' in life!
*__-