Dwelling on sin

[achilles12604]

The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the persepctive of free will, do these thoughts consititute sin regardless of actions?

[sledheavy]

maybe I'm not understanding the question fully.

But is this a topic of 'do our thoughts dictate our actions' kind of discussion?

We'd have to consider some aspects of sin to be natural occurring. What defines sin outside of the bible? What are common values amongst other religions that would seperate good from bad?

Murder/ acts of justice/ means of survival/ morals/ ethics........



I'm fried.

I'll let you big dogs handle this topic.

let me just say this:

If by thinking evil thoughts or unnatural thoughts just simply = sin, I was screwed to begin with.

[Confused]

The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the persepctive of free will, do these thoughts consititute sin regardless of actions?

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Here, thought alone constitutes a sin of adultery.

Matthew 5:34-36 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great KingAnd do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black

Once again, even the thought of cursing is a sin.

These are the first two that came to mind, but I am sure there are plenty other examples that show that the mere thinking of sin is as guilty as doing it.

[McCulloch]

Matthew 5:34-36 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black

Once again, even the thought of cursing is a sin.

Matthew 5:34-36 refers to swearing as in swearing an oath not cursing.

[ST88]

The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the persepctive of free will, do these thoughts consititute sin regardless of actions?

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Here, thought alone constitutes a sin of adultery.

Doesn't in his heart mean that action necessarily follows thought? Not that it is sinful to think about it, but that the desire for it will inevitably lead to the suffering of sin. The following passage (the pluck your offending eye out passage, yeccch) would seem to imply that it's better to stop yourself from thinking about it. If it can be said to be better if you think then not think, then it doesn't seem to have the same sinful accounting gravitas as the sinful act. If true, then thinking about it is not a sin, but more of a transitory wrong. It's wrong to think about it because it will lead to the sin of action, not because it is a sin in itself.

[MagusYanam]

I move that 'lust' and 'sexual desire' are two different things. 'Lust' indicates a desire to use another human being for sexual satisfaction regardless of the other person's will - in other words, a form of selfish exploitation - whereas mere 'sexual desire' is not necessarily so. But the want to exploit someone else to fulfil one's own desires (hence, the thought) is a form of sin, in that it points to one's own selfishness. Obviously, acting upon it is worse, but the inclination to do wrong, to exploit, is still there even if it's merely thought and not done.

But then again, sin is something to be overcome (never perfectly by oneself - only God can overcome sin completely). I think of sin as deeper than just 'being naughty' - it is a natural shortcoming: human beings are naturally self-centred and naturally short-sighted - we are naturally tethered to ourselves, and this leads to a lot of suffering, both for ourselves and for those around us.

So, ST88, I think my disagreement with you here is a definitional one. You see 'sin' as an action whereas I see 'sin' as an inclination, the byproduct of being human.

[AClockWorkOrange]

Once again, even the thought of cursing is a sin.

not to rehash this, becuase McCulluch already renounced it, but to just clarify, "swearing" only meant making an oath in Gods name outside of church, and the whole naughty word thing being incorperated into the phrase came much later.

[McCulloch]

Once again, even the thought of cursing is a sin.

not to rehash this, becuase McCulloch already renounced it, but to just clarify, "swearing" only meant making an oath in Gods name outside of church, and the whole naughty word thing being incorperated into the phrase came much later.

There is no reason to read outside of church into Jesus' words cited, is there?

[AClockWorkOrange]

There is no reason to read outside of church into Jesus' words cited, is there?

i guess i was unlcear.



in ancient times, the names of gods held a certain weight that they dont now.
people believed they were magic or powerful somehow, and making curses and oaths in their names was a big deal.
judaism frowned on this, probably becuase it possessed their god (the created commanding the creator) and their religion, being very subserviant, forbade this.

over generations, gutteral words went under the "swearing" umbrella.

[Cathar1950]

The bible speaks of the hearts of men always dwelling on evil. From the persepctive of free will, do these thoughts consititute sin regardless of actions?

I don’t think the bible speaks, your read it.
I don’t see everyone always dwelling on evil.
We have no idea what Jesus said, we have the gospels written later by
Believers with an agenda or agendas.

With out imagination you couldn’t read it and get an emotional response.
I guess I have a problem with the bible speaking the heart of man always being evil and sin.