Is apologetics a science?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
McCulloch
Site Supporter
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Is apologetics a science?

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

jcrawford wrote:Christian apologetics have always been a form of cognitive science.
Question for debate: Can Christian apologetics be considered a discipline within the field of cognitive science?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

Cogitoergosum
Sage
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:00 pm

Re: Is apologetics a science?

Post #51

Post by Cogitoergosum »

jcrawford wrote:
Cogitoergosum wrote: There is no evidence for a soul then by default the reasonable person will assume it does not exist.
What reasonable person might presume to have no soul when they are the embodiment of a living soul?
Read up on PET scans and how they can map your brain, showing you which part is responsible for which perception.
Good thing PET scans are incapable of reading our minds or knowing our thoughts, because if they could we would have no defense against government sanctioned brain scientists then.
There are volumes of evidence to this effect You just don't know much when it comes to the medical field or else you would not argue that.
I know enough about brain science to know that your brain is incapable of generating any thoughts, beliefs or ideas in your mind, and that without being in full possession of a good mind and all of their mental faculties, brain scientists may be a dangerous threat not only to us but to each other.
I have no soul.
You suppress it. Hope you don't do the same with your true personality.
Still mistaken all these are done in your brain.
No evidence of any intelligence in your brain.
cognitive Me = my brain
Spoken like a mindless brain or mindless cognitive scientist.
Again brain not soul.
Have Brain - Will Travel, huh?
There is no evidence for god or four a soul. i'm comfortable with my brain and how human brains evolved.
Besides Dawkin's selfish gene, we now have the comfortable brain.
I would explain to you how the brain works, but it will take way too long if you don't have a medical background which you obviously don't, so i'll have to start from the beginning, from GENESIS (lol). Read up for starters on neurons, action potentials, synapses, neurotransmitters and chemicals that alters them. and we'll go on from there.
I once bought a book titled Mapping the Mind and when I got home and opened it, there were nothing but brain diagrams and schematics in it, since the poor fellows who complied the book obviously had no more explanation for their mind than to fancy it a cognitive product of the grey matter wedged between their two ears.
I didn't expect any intelligent reply or any evidence to the presence of a soul from you, and i'm not surprised by your answer. NOT ONE EVIDENCE for the presence of a soul, instead you decided that i'll give you proof that there need not be a soul, your brain does all that and your reply was "yes there is a soul" without presenting anything.
One last argument, does dementia affect your SOUL? when your intelligence and cognition declines after brain injury does that affect your soul too? Do drugs that alter your awareness affect your SOUL? do chemicals that are natural affect your supernatural and immaterial SOUL? Cause they do affect cognition that you attribute to your SOUL.
So finally man, GO SELL CRAZY SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BYING HERE.
Beati paupere spiritu

jcrawford
Guru
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Post #52

Post by jcrawford »

micatala wrote:Moderator Note
jcrawford wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:Still mistaken all these are done in your brain.
No evidence of any intelligence in your brain.
As per the rules, please refrain from personal attacks.
As per the rules, please lighten up and lay off the personal attacks on me, since there is no evidence of any intelligence in anyone's brain, including the brains of living neuroscientists, mathematical physicists like Albert Einstein or everday posters on the forum like you and I.

Intelligence is a faculty of your soul and anyone with a rational and cognitive mind should know that their brain is just a physical organ for processing and co-ordinating neurological impulses stimulated by physical and mental phenomena.

One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud was its capacity for the transference of its own analytical intelligence and intellectual being to another person or object which also enabled it to deny responsibility for its own actions.

In some cases, I would venture to say, that a human soul under scientific investigation, willingly transfers responsibilty for itself to some physical function of its central nervous system or brain and thus denies its own being and existence.

jcrawford
Guru
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Re: Is apologetics a science?

Post #53

Post by jcrawford »

McCulloch wrote:
jcrawford wrote:What reasonable person might presume to have no soul when they are the embodiment of a living soul?
This statement is either begging the question or equivocation.
It is begging the question. Answer it.

Are you a living soul or not?

A rational cognitive scientist should be able to answer such a simple question.
cognitive Me = my brain
jcrawford wrote:Spoken like a mindless brain or mindless cognitive scientist.
I would think that the burden of proof lies with the one making a positive claim. In this case, the positive claim is that there is an entity called soul that is separate from brain. I have seen no evidence of it's existence.
What do you think you are communicating with - a human central nervous system, brain, mind or soul?

Keep in mind that you have no observation or perception of either my brain or body other than that conjured up, imagined and presupposed in your own mind on the ontological assumption that the expressions of a soul cannot possibly exist outside of its own body and brain.

User avatar
Furrowed Brow
Site Supporter
Posts: 3720
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Here
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post #54

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Jcrawford wrote:It is begging the question. Answer it.

Are you a living soul or not?
No!
Jcrawford wrote: A rational cognitive scientist should be able to answer such a simple question.
If the question can be put in such a way that it can be tested for. If the soul really could be weighed for example. Or that our best physical theories necessitated such a postulate. But they don't. Unless of course you can offer a reason where they fall short; and the gap can ONLY be filled by soul.

User avatar
McCulloch
Site Supporter
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is apologetics a science?

Post #55

Post by McCulloch »

jcrawford wrote:What reasonable person might presume to have no soul when they are the embodiment of a living soul?
McCulloch wrote:This statement is either begging the question or equivocation.
jcrawford wrote:It is begging the question.
I suspected that it was equivocation. However since you admit to the logical fallacy of begging the question, the question has not been answered, has it?
jcrawford wrote:Answer it. Are you a living soul or not?
If you define us as being a living soul, as in The first man, Adam, became a living soul then without further ado, I am a living soul. However, that answer has no meaning beyond defining the word soul. If, however, you mean by the word soul what most Christians mean by the word, distinct entity separate from the body, then no, I am not a soul nor do I have a soul.
jcrawford wrote:A rational cognitive scientist should be able to answer such a simple question.
I am rational. I do follow as much as I can scientific principles, but I am not a scientist; I have no science degrees; I have published no original scientific work; I have not done any original scientific experiments. While I have read with interest of some of the work by cognitive scientists, I am not one. I am not aware of the use of the term living soul by those recognized as cognitive scientists.

Is there a Cognitive Science department at Oklahoma Christian University, Abilene Christian University, John Brown University, Bethany University, Trinity International University, Wheaton College, MidAmerica Nazarene University, Cornerstone University, Missouri Baptist University, Philadelphia Biblical University, Lipscomb University or Pepperdine University?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

User avatar
Furrowed Brow
Site Supporter
Posts: 3720
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Here
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post #56

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Jcrawford wrote: One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....
Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.

User avatar
Goat
Site Supporter
Posts: 24999
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:09 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post #57

Post by Goat »

Furrowed Brow wrote:
Jcrawford wrote: One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....
Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.
Some people still are , regardless of what Sigmund might or might not have 'discovered'.

jcrawford
Guru
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Post #58

Post by jcrawford »

Furrowed Brow wrote:
Jcrawford wrote:It is begging the question. Answer it.

Are you a living soul or not?
No!
Jcrawford wrote: A rational cognitive scientist should be able to answer such a simple question.
If the question can be put in such a way that it can be tested for. If the soul really could be weighed for example.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that you are not a living soul then, since you claim there can be no test for it and that it cannot be "weighed?" Under the conditions you prescribe for attaining knowledge, a more honest answer would be that you claim to have no way of knowing.
Or that our best physical theories necessitated such a postulate.
Do you mean metaphysical theories about that which is physical, since theories about physics have no "physical" being.
But they don't. Unless of course you can offer a reason where they fall short; and the gap can ONLY be filled by soul.
The gap between the physical and metaphysical or natural and supernatural is easily demonstrated by a soul when it is observed that all theories about physics and "nature" are metaphysical in form since they have no physical constituency. (ie: no observable mass, material form and composition or atomic structure)

If you choose to postulate that theories consist of physical energy, then you would have to be able to "weigh" or otherwise measure that energy in terms of physical force or power in order to determine whose theories weigh most or are more real.

jcrawford
Guru
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Re: Is apologetics a science?

Post #59

Post by jcrawford »

McCulloch wrote:
jcrawford wrote:What reasonable person might presume to have no soul when they are the embodiment of a living soul?
McCulloch wrote:This statement is either begging the question or equivocation.
jcrawford wrote:It is begging the question.
I suspected that it was equivocation. However since you admit to the logical fallacy of begging the question, the question has not been answered, has it?
The question has been answered by Furrowed Brow, myself and now you also, as I see below.
jcrawford wrote:Answer it. Are you a living soul or not?
If you define us as being a living soul, as in The first man, Adam, became a living soul then without further ado, I am a living soul.
Good answer and definition.
However, that answer has no meaning beyond defining the word soul.
Let's give it a little more meaning then by expanding upon the limited definition which we have established thus far.
If, however, you mean by the word soul what most Christians mean by the word, distinct entity separate from the body, then no, I am not a soul nor do I have a soul.
Since we can't have your being a soul one minute and then not being or having a soul the next minute, we shall have to further clarify what we mean by a "soul," to the best of our cognitive abilities then.
jcrawford wrote:A rational cognitive scientist should be able to answer such a simple question.
I am rational. I do follow as much as I can scientific principles, but I am not a scientist;
Having admitted to your rationality, and cognition of "scientific" principles, we should be able to list your cognitive powers along with your qualifications as a rational soul.
Is there a Cognitive Science department at Oklahoma Christian University, Abilene Christian University, John Brown University, Bethany University, Trinity International University, Wheaton College, MidAmerica Nazarene University, Cornerstone University, Missouri Baptist University, Philadelphia Biblical University, Lipscomb University or Pepperdine University?
Whether or not, the logical and scientific teaching and application of Christianity constitutes a form of cognitive science in itself.

jcrawford
Guru
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Post #60

Post by jcrawford »

Furrowed Brow wrote:
Jcrawford wrote: One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....
Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.
At least Sigmund Freud acknowledged and recognized (cognized) the human mind and various functions within it, even if most of his theories concerning the Unconscious Mind and the Id were based on Darwin's psychological theories of human origins from sub-human African apes.

Post Reply