Was Jesus a normal man? Or a psycho high on marijuana?

RavEMasteR · Post by **RavEMasteR** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:22 am

Walking on water, healing lepers, casting out evil spirits from some people and pigs killing themselves.

Is this all really true? Or were Jesus and his disciples all high on drugs?

Debate!

Post by **otseng** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:52 am

OK, simple question, how could a man high on marijuana walk on water? Does weed give someone special ability to walk on water? Perform miracles? I am not familiar with special powers that weed gives so that you'll need to please enlighten me.

Corvus · Post by **Corvus** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:46 pm

The properties of hashish and opium would have been known in the time of Jesus Christ. Both would be taken in the form of a paste to be eaten, and although I've never tried them, I've heard accounts where both seem to possess hallucinogenic properties, although they might be the exaggerations of authors completely unfamiliar with the drugs.

Still, there's no evidence to suggest that this actually happened. Might as well say Jesus was Superman, or was actually a magical being from Atlantis.

Shild · Post by **Shild** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:18 pm

Well, contemporary Jewish sources accuse Jesus of "sorcery," which indicates he did things which observers interpreted as supernatural.

In Jesus' time, when someone was hallucinating, that person was usually accused of being possessed by a demon, not of being a sorcerer.

RavEMasteR · Post by **RavEMasteR** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:03 am

Otseng, that wasn't what I meant. I said that Jesus and his disciples might've had too much to smoke before that, and saw ridiculous things that Jesus did.

Note that, during those times, there were no laws to control the use of drugs, and as far as I know, sheesha originated from the Middle East, and this sheesha was once something that kicks you high.

Post by **otseng** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:54 am

Suppose Jesus and his disciples were high on some hallucenic drugs. It would then require that all witnesses also be high on drugs. Not only did Jesus and his disciples believe all the miracles, but so did everyone around them. Also there has been no primary source documents even hinting that those around him were hallucinating.

I think the main issue would be, how could Jesus do miracles? Either they did happen or they didn't. If they didn't really happen, then either they all made it up or they hallucinated.

I can see why people would believe that miracles cannot happen if they subscribe to naturalistic thinking. That is, the supernatural does not exist. But one of the main tenets of Christianity is that the supernatural does exist. And thus miracles can certainly occur.

RavEMasteR · Post by **RavEMasteR** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:48 am

That is correct. Otseng, I hope you've not forgotten that the writers of the Bible saw some individual things too, like how one account gives a different story from the other. There are lots of examples of this.

Post by **otseng** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:32 am

Doesn't mean that they are all wrong. It happens quite often in courtrooms. What people testify are their own recollections and also from their own perspective. To get a more complete account of what happens, you have multiple witnesses. That's why in the Bible there are multiple versions of the same story (gospels, creation, kings, etc).

However, if you are stating there are contradictory accounts, then those would be good threads to discuss (hint, hint).

Abs like J' · Post by **Abs like J'** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:49 pm

I would personally have to say that the accounts are neither true or the result of hallucinogenic followers.

For me the absence of contemporary writings detailing the person and acts of the Biblical Jesus casts some doubt as to the facts of his life and behavior. In a region known to have had scribes, poets/bards, philosophers and historians it stands to reason for me that some of them would have taken immediate notice of a man curing the sick of terminal illnesses and incurable maladies; walking on water and calming storms; raising the dead as well as rising from the dead himself; and the evident catalyst in such natural phenomenon as three hour eclipses and earthquakes powerful enough to split stones and architecture.

Those who lived in the region at the time, whose writings have survived, are silent of this person and the events alleged to have accompanied him.

The oldest writings we have come from the person we know as Paul, an early missionary who admittedly had no direct knowledge of an earthly Jesus and who appears to have been ignorant of important details of his alleged acts in life.

Only later in the Gospels, written by unknown authors at unknown dates, is the life story of this man fleshed out with varying details and heavy reliance upon ancient Hebrew text. This later development of a life story replete with details any early writer or follower should have known, accompanied by such reliance upon supposed prophecies, indicates to me a life created entirely in the imagination of its authors.

While I suppose there may have originally been a man by which early belief was structured around, the factual details of such a life seem to be lost. What we have today in the Bible appears to be no different than the mythologies of ancient heroes the likes of Hercules.

k-nug · Post by **k-nug** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:24 am

First of all hello everyone my first post. I like discussing religion but most of the Music oriented forums I browse disallow religious discussions. I should say at first that im athiest for lack of a better word, and leaning towards evolution and natural selection as an explanation of our presence here.

I have smoked Marijuana, Hash, and opium in the past, Large amounts of it at times, and although I did have hallucinogenic experiences, nothing ever close to actual visual hallucinations that make you think your seeing something when your not. It's more of a mental and physical feeling like being drunk. Not that jesus would not have done it, he very well could have, maybe this fueled his idea that he was a son of god. Pot has never made me think anything like that, but i bet any drugs he may have taken were probably more powerful than a recreational drug like pot, that has effects more akin to alcohol than hard hallucinogenics. There are some natural hallucinogens with very potent properties, like mushrooms, and salvia, both natural but im not sure if they had those available in judea, or wherever they were.

My personal take on the healings-supernatural occurances of jesus as reported in the gospels is the way I see people, especially Hollywood, tell stories.
They always make huge exaggerations and dramatize the story, in any flick you see, they always take things and make them just unbelievable or over the top.

Over time, the stories of Jesus become more and more unreal with years passing between the actual events and the writing of the gospels, theres no telling what actually happened. Have you ever played that childhood game Telephone where one person starts with one sentence and by the time it gets back around the message is completely different? This is the way of the human storyteller. Its evident in the gospels that actually made it into the modern bible that they cant even agree amongst themselves what actually happened.

My opinion is that Jesus was a leader of a sect, like the mormons or the branch davidians(who thought he was the son of god hmm). Over time, followers of the sect write about their beloved leader, adding "enhancements" to the story to attract followers.

anyway enough of a long post for my first one I had a lot to get out lol.
Please dont take my post as an endorsement of drug use, im just sharing past experience to enlighten those who may not know of the effects of those drugs.