THIS IS YOUR PROOF? Haaaaa

[Avoice]

This proves Jesus is the Messiah, huh?

He turned water into wine
Walked on water
Blah-blah-blah

WHY are Christians so impressed with those things?

Did you notice that all the things that Jesus was said to have done cant be proven.
Walked on water? Says who? Wheres thevell evidence? And even f you had evidence it doesnt matter. It means nothing. It is not foretold that the messiah will walk on water.
Hey,...Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Pretty cool. But thats not what we look for. Walking on the moon or the water means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Nobody dared to claim he brought peace. Because wed know it.
If he built the 3rd temple we'd know it

Jesus has done nothing the messiah is to do. And all the things that 'wow' Christians arent the things that we are told the messiah will do.

Christians: Why are you so wowed over things that dont matter?

[1213]

This proves Jesus is the Messiah, huh?

He turned water into wine
Walked on water
Blah-blah-blah

WHY are Christians so impressed with those things?

I think those were for the people that were with him. I think more important is what he said. I am impressed with his words. And I think he is the Messiah, because new covenant was made through him, as it was predicted before him.

Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.
Deut. 18:15 (Acts 7:37)
For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)
Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
Deut. 30:6-9
He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.
Matt. 26:27-28

Did you notice that all the things that Jesus was said to have done cant be proven.

Can anything be proven? Probably not. Luckily I don't think it is necessary, because the point is not to know surely Jesus existed, but to become righteous.

Nobody dared to claim he brought peace. Because wed know it.

You just have not found the peace. But it is for all disciples of Jesus and they can have it already.

I leave peace to you; My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be timid.
John 14:27
Therefore don't be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?' For the Gen-tiles seek after all these things, for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first God's Kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things will be given to you as well.
Matt. 6:31-33

If he built the 3rd temple we'd know it

In Biblical point of view, God's congregation is the third temple. And it can be said he is the corner stone of the temple.

Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. The Jews therefore said, It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days? But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,
Col. 2:9
For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's farming, God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another builds on it. But let each man be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ
Dont you know that you are a temple of God, and that Gods Spirit lives in you?
1 Cor. 3:9-11, 16

Jesus has done nothing the messiah is to do.

What is the Messiah to do? Why do you think so?

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

The new covenant? You are under the new covenant?
Didnt you read what it says about it? When that happens NO ONE will be out preaching saying "know the lord for they will all know me. Has that happened? NO

And you say Jesus is alive. Well, thats too bad for you. Read:

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives" NO POWER WHILE ALIVE. NI POWER. So, do you want him dead or alive? I guess that answer willbe based on who you love more. Yourself or God. Will you hurt God to save yourself. If you believe Jesus is God or Gods son are you okay with him being killed? How does that work? We humans can kill god? Really?

And Christians have nerve calling Jews Christ killers. When it is Christians who want him dead. And by the way the church finally formally admitted that the Romans killed Jesus as only they had the power to carry out any executions. If the Jews did kill Jesus, which they didnt; you should have thanked them, right? They would have given you your greatest desire. To have God die. Sm
Since day one Christians have hung their sins in the Jews. Today they are blamed for the deaths in Gaza. Ww see where they stand as they accuse us. They stand with murderers and rapists. All their protests benefit evil terrorists. Look at 'em....standing knee deep in evil while accusing Israel.
Want to know who is evil? Its easy. Its those who want to destroy the Jews. How pathetic they are. They want the Jews dead but they cant carry it out all the way. Evil has the world standing with them. Condemning Israel. The world goes along with it. For the world needs their whipping boy.

Israel is never allowed to finish off their enemies. The world wants them to keep fighting. Cease fire they cry out. Yeah, let our enemies live to fight us another day.

How miserable are our enemies. They hate us but need us to hang their guilt on. Jesus was the first Jew they were willing to let take the blame for them. Shameful.

Eat his body? Drink his blood? Oh yeah...eat god and laterdown the toilet. You may say its only symbolic. That you dont really do it. But its in your heart to do it. Your opinion of God is pretty low

Funny how Christians recoil in discust when watching a documentary about people who throw babies and virgins into a volcano to apoease their god. Savages, they will say! Yet you celebrate a guy being nailed to a tree. An innocent person. But thats okay, right?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Christians: Why are you so wowed over things that dont matter?

So, what is it that matters the most to you?

[Avoice]

What matters most? I think what matters is believing what God has said. Most people will say they believe IN God. That means very little.
When God said dont eat pig I believe him. He never said differently. So I dont eat it. It doesnt matter what anyone else says about it.

What matters is what God has said. Whether we like or dislike what he says isn't part of it.

Aak a Christian why they eat bacon after knowing what God commanded. Whatever the answer given it will be that they dont agree with God. Christians dont agree with God. Bacon tastes good so they eat it. In short, they have creates God in their image. That being Jesus.

Ask a Jew why they dont eat pig.
Because God said not to eat it.

[OneJack]

[Replying to Avoice in post #5]

What matters most? I think what matters is believing what God has said. Most people will say they believe IN God. That means very little.
When God said dont eat pig I believe him. He never said differently. So I dont eat it. It doesnt matter what anyone else says about it.

What matters is what God has said. Whether we like or dislike what he says isn't part of it.

Aak a Christian why they eat bacon after knowing what God commanded. Whatever the answer given it will be that they dont agree with God. Christians dont agree with God. Bacon tastes good so they eat it. In short, they have creates God in their image. That being Jesus.

Ask a Jew why they dont eat pig.
Because God said not to eat it.

I agree 100 % that what matters most is what God says today, but how can we know what God is saying to us today? What is God, btw??

[1213]

The new covenant? You are under the new covenant?

I have accepted the new covenant and want to live according to it.

Didnt you read what it says about it? When that happens NO ONE will be out preaching saying "know the lord for they will all know me. Has that happened?

I believe that happens, or has happened to everyone who takes part of the new covenant.

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives" NO POWER WHILE ALIVE. NI POWER. So, do you want him dead or alive? I guess that answer willbe based on who you love more. Yourself or God. Will you hurt God to save yourself. If you believe Jesus is God or Gods son are you okay with him being killed? How does that work? We humans can kill god? Really?

I want him alive. And I think it was wrong that people murdered him. Luckily God raised him from death and now I believe he is alive.

Bible tells there is only one true God. And the true God is greater than Jesus, if we believe what Jesus says. That is why I don't think Jesus is the God and people didn't kill the God.

If the Jews did kill Jesus, which they didnt; you should have thanked them, right?

I believe what the Bible tells and according to it Romans killed Jesus. But, there were also Jews who wanted it to be done. I think it would be wrong to blame all the Romans, or Jews for what some people did a long time ago.

I don't see any reason to thank people for murdering the King.

Want to know who is evil? Its easy. Its those who want to destroy the Jews.

I can agree with that. I think all murderers are evil.

Eat his body? Drink his blood?

In this case I think it is important to understand: When Moses made the previous covenant, it was sealed with animal sacrifices, with the blood and body of an animal. This new covenant is also sealed with body and blood, but in this case the blood is the wine and the body is the bread. It does not mean we are eating Jesus or God.

Funny how Christians recoil in discust when watching a documentary about people who throw babies and virgins into a volcano to apoease their god. Savages, they will say! Yet you celebrate a guy being nailed to a tree. An innocent person. But thats okay, right?

I don't celebrate killing. I celebrate that Jesus was raised from death and the Gospel that was declared through him.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #7]

You want him alive? You want him killed first. He'd be no good to you if he didn't die. So don't act like you didn't want him killed.

You believed the New covenant happened?
Don't you even bother listening to God. Why don't you believe him? He said ALL WILL KNOW HIM. NO ONE WILL BE OUT PREACHING anymore. Meaning you and I and this forum will have no purpose. Why don't you believe God?

And what makes you think you can offer a sacrifice ? That is to say - Jesus. Christians say they are no longer under the law. THEREFORE YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. AND THAT INCLUDES THE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM.
Either you are under the law or you are not.

And by the way, sacrifices were only for unintentional sins. Not for sins you committed knowing it was wrong. Remember that. So if you want to pretend Jesus is your sacrifice then he could only save you for unintentional sins. And quite frankly most sibs that are committed arent unintentional. If you cheat on your spouse you know it's wrong. No sacrifice can help there. If you shoplift...can't help you there either because you know stealing is wrong.

Jesus died in a disgusting nasty place.

God said he only accepts sacrifices in the temple. And blood must be put on horns if the alter. Jesus is unacceptable. I mean come on.... Golgotha? Really? Hiw disgusting. Might as well toss God a piece of meat. Bunch of bodies hanging from poles. The smell of urine and feces and rotting bodies. Oh really nice. You want God to accept that? I'd sooner perish then give that to God as an offering.

Besides, he won't accept it anyway. He said so. He said it twice. Only HE CHOOSES where to accept a sacrifice. And that is in THE TEMPLE! Or don't you believe him about that either? Or you don't care what he says and want him to accept a smelly sacrifice on a tree in a disgusting place?

And Jesus didn't want to die remember? He wasn't a willing sacrifice. And what did he sacrifice? His life? No. Because you say he is alive. He suffered before he died? I got news for you: a woman in labor would trade places with Jesus. So would men who had their legs blown off in combat.

Jesus sacrificed nothing. According to your Bible he died then went to paradise then came back and walked around again and now lives forever. Where's the sacrifice?
Hey ....I'll suffer for six hours on a tree if afterward I'll never die. He sacrificed nothing and gained everything.
Who in their right mind would turn down a deal like that? No one. All would take that deal!!! Like winning the lottery.

Sacrifice?

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #7]
"...But, there were also Jews who wanted it to be done."

Let me make sure I heard you. You say the Romans killed Jesus BUT there were also Jews who wanted it to be done. Still have to blame the Jews huh? Blaming them for a sin that is really in you and every other Christians heart. YOU need him dead. So that's what YOU want. You double your sins by trying to hang your guilt on them.

ANYBODY ELSE WANT it to be done?
How about you?
How about your ancestors?
How about all Jesus' followers?

Let's turn back the clock 2000+ years shall we....
Jesus would be hiding out with me and you'd be looking for him to nail him to a tree. That's the truth.

What kind of a person would let an innocent person be punished for crimes they didn't commit. You know that is wrong. You know that!! But when it comes to saving yourselves (Christians) you are willing to sacrifice God. Or whoever you think Jesus is. God's son.

I would never willingly send the wrong person to the gas chamber. Would you? I think you would.

God didn't kill himself for you or anyone else. But he knows who wants that to happen

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Avoice in post #8]

And Jesus didn't want to die remember? He wasn't a willing sacrifice.

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

He set aside His own will, to do the will of the Father. He remained obedient and faithful even to His death. Not just in giving His life for others (Life for life); but in asking forgiveness for those who put Him there. In asking forgiveness for those who had made themselves His enemies.

He also could have asked His Father to send angels to keep it from happening. So He may not have wanted to suffer and die, but He was willing to do so, out of love for His Father (first) and love for us, and even love for His enemies (since He gave His life for them as well, asking His Father to forgive them 'for they know not what they do.')

And what did he sacrifice? His life? No. Because you say he is alive. He suffered before he died? I got news for you: a woman in labor would trade places with Jesus.

Speaking as a woman who has been in labour, I would not want to trade places. To be whipped, spit upon, hated, betrayed, nailed to a cross and left to suffer there until I die? No.

Jesus sacrificed nothing. According to your Bible he died then went to paradise then came back and walked around again and now lives forever. Where's the sacrifice?
Hey ....I'll suffer for six hours on a tree if afterward I'll never die.

He was never going to die to begin with. He would have continued to live forever, just as He had been living before coming in the flesh.


Peace again to you.