Is ignorance true bliss?

[vfr]

(...) writes:

"Should we pursue all possible knowledge or should knowledge be censored, edited, selected, maintained, and tampered with so as to allow only that which best serves life? Or to put it differently: Is ignorance true bliss? And if it is, should we will such ignorance so as to better preserve our bliss? Of course, one then must invite the question as to whether "bliss" is the final value, the final measure of value of a life?"


V:

"The highest object that human beings can set before themselves is not the pursuit of any such chimera as the annihilation of the unknown: it is simply the unwearied endeavor to remove its boundaries a little further from our little sphere of action." ~ Huxley


Yes, ignorance can be bliss, just as the bliss an alcoholic finds when in their drunken stupor. The problem is not in the discussion of truth, the only problem is when people try to 'block' the discussion of truth. Prejudice, hatred and ill will can never yield true peace. These actions of destruction require 'some thinking' on the part of the person that seeks bliss through mind manacled ignorance and tries to destroy others with their actions of destruction due to an insobriety of personal opinions. There is nothing wrong with having personal opinions, but when we use these opinions to destroy others, then it does become very wrong.

The prejudiced, blind, small minded thinker cannot entertain freethought as they must block or censor the ideas and concepts before testing them for truth. Their ego will not allow it! Such people do not operate on truth, they operate on ego. The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this. An authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth. For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their EGO. We all have to use our ego when making value judgments, but the crossover come when the ego is used as a weapon.

As Horace told us, "Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt--You can run away as far as you like but you'll never get away from yourself." The person that lives by prejudice and hate carries it with them wherever they go and eventually it rots them from the inside out.

Let me give you a little background about myself and censorship.

I have been on about 210 forums over the last 9 years and have been banned from about 70% of them due to prejudice. The vast majority of these forums have been dedicated to personal improvement as well as spiritual studies.

Now with Christian forums it is 100% ban rate and Buddhist forums is 90% ban and atheist forums it is about 85% - 90% ban.

But this ignorance is universal 'human' in nature.

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Let me give you an example that has happened to me in the past.

In the bible it says "Test everything; hold fast to what is good; abstain from every form of evil," (1 Thess. 5:21)

Taking from Christian, Buddhist and most other religions of the world I discuss such tools in my posts no matter their source. When I talked about this 'concept of testing' and related it to the Buddha's tool of testing doctrine, but included this bible quote above, I was banned by the Buddhists. Yet the Buddha also encouraged testing of his teachings before adopting those teachings.

At a Christian forum, when I brought up the Buddha encourages testing just as it was said in the bible, the Christian forums banned me.

Then at the atheist forums when I mention the Bible and the Buddha both offered the tools of testing to help determine truth, the atheist sites ban me.

Yet, all three groups like the idea of testing for truth, as long as this idea comes from them and not from anyone else...many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. Alan Watts use to say we define ourselves by our enemies. We define ourselves by what we are not. He used the example of 'Beatniks and Squares' which were the in fad opposites back in his day. So of course it is natural for these groups to view themselves as polar opposites.

We should always be interested in finding truth and peace. If our way is not working then some other way may help. It is good to test and see the results and not get caught up in prejudice blocking the way. For with such tests, 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating' and decisions on how to live will not be left only to your ego, but will be grounded in peace.

The three unwholesome roots of delusions, greed and hate are very basic to a a Buddhist practice. Out of these three, delusion is the foundational root, for without seeing delusions for what they are, you cannot distinguish the other two unwholesome roots of greed and hate. People suffer from delusions in all form and not just deity worship. Atheism, while freeing ones mind to think, but it does not guarantee one thinks right and acts right. This is the importance of replacing wrong religious beliefs with right thinking and right living.

For instance, I was banned from many 'so called' Buddhist sites such as Esangha, Tricycle, Shambhala, Buddha Chat, 12 step Buddhists, Sangha-Pauahtun, eBuddhism, etc even though I have been a freethinking Buddhist for nearly a decade. Some people claiming to be Buddhist think all they have to is shave their heads, adopt a silly name, be a vegetarians and burn incense to be a Buddhists...all the while they are doing great harm to others, Which is how it is with many Buddhist forums that are 'for profit' and run by 'spiritually sick' individuals. Currently, it is a sad state of affairs with such online Buddhist groups.

I've been on dozens of Christian forums and I have perfect record at the Christian forums...100% banned...and I was a Christian myself at that time I tried to join them years ago.

I was able to finagle my way back into one Christian forum though:

http://www.christianforums.com/index.php

But I could only stay if I claimed to be an atheist...and I do not post much and keep my mouth shut...and if I do post it has to be something non consequential. Also I am not allowed to post with the Christians. I can only post to the atheists. I like that forum as it reminds me of the 'sickness of attachment,' so that is why I put up with all the prejudice. At that forum you can 'buy your armor' to outfit your avatar to shield you from evil and 'trade blessings' with each other.

The Billy Graham and Catholic forums banned me after my first posts...then they solicit me for months on end asking for money. I don't know whether to laugh or cry?

Charity? Humility? Reciprocity? Freedom of Faith? Truth? And of course...Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself????

I'm afraid Christians don't practice what they preach...at least at their forums. (Even the Buddhist whose mantra is 'Do No Harm' ban me 90% of the time at their forums, so they are only a little better than the Christians.)

Atheist forums are not much better at freethinking. Been banned at evil bible dot com, ethical atheist, Internet infidels, X-Christians and others.

How do I find peace with all this prejudice?

By knowing

"With the same material one man builds a palace and another only a hovel." Russell Cromwell.

and accepting people are not perfect, nor am I perfect which is just as the Taoists tell us: "fleas come with the dog."



So, my vote?

Seek truth and realize that as Aristotle told us: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it and to rest satisfied with the degree of precision which the nature of the subject admits and not to seek exactness where only an approximation is possible."




V (male)

[methylatedghosts]

Ok, let me have a go (however short it might be)

I would say, ignorance is bliss, in the sense that "If you don't see it, it's not there" and "if its not there, don't worry about it"

But I'm going to ask, is a person with alzheimers really truely blissful? Well, its not quite the same, but is similar.

I think it'd be worse being ignorant, and knowing you are. If you know that you are ignorant, then it becomes emmensly frustrating trying to "work it all out".

Or is it as einstein (I believe) said something like "the more I know, the more I realise I don't know" Is that better?

Man, this seems to be kinda jumbled, but I can't stop thoughts aaargh!!!!

[Confused]

You present a lot of information in one post.

1) Ignorance can be bliss in some circumstances. In others not. But there is a difference between choosing ignorance and having it forced upon you. For example, if I choose to ignore anyone who uses the word Christ, then my ignorance is at my own consequences. On the flip side, if it is forbidden to ever mention the name Christ to me, then I am intentionally being kept ignorant, hence censorship, and it is wrong. When prejudice and hatred are the reason for the blocking of truth, I have to say that it is wrong. But this is a fine line to tread on. The problem is that people abuse the censorship principle. To say "the public has the right to know" isn't saying the public has a need to know. For example, rape victims who end up hounded by the press. They neither asked to be raped, nor asked for the media to broadcast it. They only want justice. But the press uses the "right to know" and "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press" to justify it. This is abuse of the provisions and as such should be censored. The same case can be made for soldiers executed live or pictures of a dead loved one being printed on the newspaper. However, this is my personal opinion and you may not agree with me. So what I might consider right in censoring or not censoring you may consider it just the opposite. The problem isn't the truth, it is the people who hold it and how they use it. I am likely going to get a lot of slack for this but I will say it anyways: in some cases racism keeps racism going. In other words, in the fight for equal rights for minorites or what have you, it gets carried to the extreme of more rights then deserved. Racism must keep racism alive because if they let it die, then they can no longer blame society for their misfortune and must now accept responsibility of their own fate. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there aren't circumstances in which racism is clearly oppression. But there are cases in which it isn't as well. So yes, the person that lives by prejudice and hate carries it with them wherever they go and eventually it rots them from the inside out. But on the flip side, the person that exploits prejudicism and hatred follows the same path.

2) Of these 210 forums in which you have been banned from 70% of them for prejudice, I would have to ask what was their criteria or forum rules. Such as this forum. It has rules as well. No personal attacks, back up your claims, be respectful, etc.... It is one thing to debate something, it is another to debate it in a civil manner. So without knowing these forums rules, I can't say if you were banned for prejudice reasons or if you broke one of their rules, regardless of what you thought of the rule. The adminstrators of the forum make the rules. I you join the forum, you agree to abide by their rules. Here is that freedom issue again. It is their site, if they want to censor some things, then they have the right to do so. The breakdown of the various religious sects doesn't mean much to me. I have seen various theists and nontheists be rude, illogical, and downright offensive. As with any population of people, you will find some good and some bad.

3) I don't know that I agree that ignorance is universal human in nature. I can honestly say I have learned a lot from just this forum. It is the only one I debate on. And I debate on it to learn. Yes, I make a lot of mistakes and am as guilty as the next for allowing a bias to cloud my judgement. And most here would point it out respectfully. I then have to self evaluate to determine if it the case or not. But I don't know that I would go to the extreme of saying I am rearranging my prejudices. Instead I am reevaluating my thought process in order to learn and making adjustments when flaws in judgement are found.

4) You are right, we should always question things and if this is the only reason you were banned, then you picked so crappy forums. We should search for the truth, but not force our truth down other peoples throats. We point out the fallacies in a pesons truth and they can either accept it or reject it. Period. Some have joined this site and not lasted for more that a dozen or so posts because they considered the logical approach to be offensive. But many stick around and keep pressing their logic until they either prove it isn't a fallacy or agree that while it is a fallacy, it is their faith that carries them. This is fine for them. But they respect the form of debate in that only logic can yeild truth.

5) For each individual religion you have made note of, it may be the case that they are indeed hypocritical in that they don't practice what they preach. Hardly uncommon. If you give this forum a chance, you might find that you can learn things and teach things as well. Many are open to learning in the right atmosphere. It isn't enough to just find truth, if you don't share the truth, then you force ignorance on others and become part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

I hope to see you in the threads and look forward to what you might bring to my enlightenment.

Michelle