Matthew 11:28 ' Hope in God? '

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Matthew 11:28
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

I went down to the beach this morning. A 180 degree turn for the better ,in the weather, has brought about a total transformation. Children are in T-shirts, Dads are eating ice- cream. Mams are having breakfast alfresco. Horses and dogs are being exercised. Almost everyone is talkative and happy and life appears suddenly wonderful. This spell of weather is predicted to last until the 25th.

Jesus encourages people to 'fall into God'. Embrace God totally and joyfully,...just like a sunny day. Become uplifted and eternal, in the moment.

QUESTION

How can this be a scam?

Thanks

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #7]

Hello Clownboat

You say - "As I see it, it is the source for how we got all of our available god concepts. Yours included. Is there some reason we should treat your preferred god concept differently than other humans preferred god concepts?"

First of all , geographical or historical context does not change God. Secondly, ...this is not my concept of God. I have added nothing to what is there, even if I could. When you talk about God concepts ,you appear to be referencing religious forms ,that have evolved into structure. That is not God, but rather a human response to same.

If God is everywhere and within everything then further elaboration than that seems pointless. God is not an exclusively human concept, in any way. God is just there, as far as I am concerned.
If you say that God is not there, then, so be it, ...nothing changes.
What I am saying is that the God resource is what we should be using to amplify and enhance our existence in this world. Jesus and Job and others are offering an open and free invite to all.

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Think back to Adam when he tries to hide from God because of his self-consciousness.

I'm sorry, but to give credence to the Adam and Eve story would be to give it credit it doesn't yet deserve. Just like arguing against the earth being flat. Some claims don't even deserve to be argued against.

Be well!

Hello Clownboat

I hope that you did not think that I thought Adam and Eve was a real event. Consider it an allegorical parable, or a creation myth, or tribal folklore or whatever. The point is that there is insightfulness and truth within the narrative. Consider the evolution of modern man within the simple events of the Eden fall from God.
Thanks

Yes, that's fine. We can take it as being about the condition of man, though it rasises more questions than it answers. Why are we like this?Why do we do what we do? It does NOT...NOT...provide the reasons or answers.

This is why I quote from LoR, Star trek and Peanust rather than the Bible. It looks at the human condition but does not pretend to have the answers. It is to science we must look for answers, if at all.

But there is more. If Eden is a creation myth, a legend, why are we to blame for how we are? It is a problem sure but not a sin. It is not something that can be bought off with Blood sacrifice or a few prayers and a dollar in the tin.

In short, if Eden isn't true, neither is sin, atonement, salvation, Jesus' crucifixion and a method of redemption and thus the entire religious edifice comes crashing down.

And wonder of wonders, Nisi Dominus (if the Lord didn't build the house it'll come crashing down - and the lord did not built that particular house, trust me) is one of my favourite bit of the 1610 vespers - if it's done right, and this catches the bell -ringing, dance rhythms and operatic style of what is nevertheless a religious work.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Let me respond to some of your stuff.

T:Yes, that's fine. We can take it as being about the condition of man, though it rasises more questions than it answers. ....... It does NOT...NOT...provide the reasons or answers.

M:Raising more questions than answers is good,..is it not? You did not get a packaged answer but you got a considered and insightful account of how things might have 'played out'. It is curious that it is you ,as a professed atheist ,who expresses disappointment.


T:But there is more. If Eden is a creation myth, a legend, why are we to blame for how we are? It is a problem sure but not a sin. It is not something that can be bought off with Blood sacrifice or a few prayers and a dollar in the tin.

M: The story is generally sympathetic to man's mistake. There is general empathy with the plight of Adam and Eve in the Genesis narrative..., like a young couple who lost their lotto ticket in the laundrette. You T, head off on the usual tirade about Christian dogma, to a place where I cannot follow you.
This has nothing to do with God, but it suggests that the Jewish writers imagined a primeval bliss for man, in a God realm that was earthly and natural. It suggests that they believed that this paradise was shattered because of a change in man that was irreversibly and dramatically 'eventful'.

T:In short, if Eden isn't true, neither is sin, atonement, salvation, Jesus' crucifixion and a method of redemption and thus the entire religious edifice comes crashing down.

M: would that events could conclude in the manner that you wish for, T. Sin is a human concept that requires debate. Place it beside, regret, error and guilt, both individually and collectively. Maybe it would be therapeutic to be remorseful. Is it good to say sorry. Jesus probably was crucified, ... you are never happier ,T, than when you are knocking Temples. Fair play to you for getting there from an Eden Creation Myth.

Thanks

[BorisxArnolde]

In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus offers a comforting invitation to find rest and peace in God. It's about surrendering our burdens and finding solace in His presence, much like how the sunny weather lifted your spirits and made life feel wonderful.
As for your question about how this could be a scam, it's understandable to have doubts, especially with so much skepticism and misinformation out there.

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Let me respond to some of your stuff.

T:Yes, that's fine. We can take it as being about the condition of man, though it rasises more questions than it answers. ....... It does NOT...NOT...provide the reasons or answers.

M:Raising more questions than answers is good,..is it not? You did not get a packaged answer but you got a considered and insightful account of how things might have 'played out'. It is curious that it is you ,as a professed atheist ,who expresses disappointment.

T:But there is more. If Eden is a creation myth, a legend, why are we to blame for how we are? It is a problem sure but not a sin. It is not something that can be bought off with Blood sacrifice or a few prayers and a dollar in the tin.

M: The story is generally sympathetic to man's mistake. There is general empathy with the plight of Adam and Eve in the Genesis narrative..., like a young couple who lost their lotto ticket in the laundrette. You T, head off on the usual tirade about Christian dogma, to a place where I cannot follow you.
This has nothing to do with God, but it suggests that the Jewish writers imagined a primeval bliss for man, in a God realm that was earthly and natural. It suggests that they believed that this paradise was shattered because of a change in man that was irreversibly and dramatically 'eventful'.

T:In short, if Eden isn't true, neither is sin, atonement, salvation, Jesus' crucifixion and a method of redemption and thus the entire religious edifice comes crashing down.

M: would that events could conclude in the manner that you wish for, T. Sin is a human concept that requires debate. Place it beside, regret, error and guilt, both individually and collectively. Maybe it would be therapeutic to be remorseful. Is it good to say sorry. Jesus probably was crucified, ... you are never happier ,T, than when you are knocking Temples. Fair play to you for getting there from an Eden Creation Myth.

Thanks

Transponder is not disappointed; it suits him very well that the Eden story is an illogical shambles and scientifically inept and logically and ethically unsound. Attempts to 'explain' it raise further problems without answering the initial ones.

E.g it is NOT sympathetic to mans' mistake, rather the punishment is out of proportion and unfair, also to those who didn't even touch the apple. And further problems is the rest of creation who didn't eat the apple including other people outside Eden (such as Hod where apologists explain Cain went to get a non incestuous wive; they didn't eat the apple either.

No, a myth to explain how fudge was invented (an angry old woman cursed) and should be dismissed as a silly myth (and scientifically wrong) to explain Man's nature, adapted to survive but not to love their fellow man (nor discover truth). And thus to explain why we are that way without the Potter being to blame for how he made his pots.

So make it a myth about Mans' nature. But then Christian salvation needs it to be a sin that has to be redeemed by sacrifice. Otherwise, you might as well have his Begotten son guillotined to remove the edict against foreskins, which He now doesn't mind.

No more than T minds Temples. Christian or otherwise - as (like great choral music) an example of human aspiration and communication and never mind the religion. And sin is a human concept that requires more debate, but not going around in circles nor struggling o make sense of a religious claim that makes no sense.

When we understand that humans are evolved and thus not designed to be moral, then we can stop fretting about Sin and think in terms of aspiration - knowing where we want to get to and methods of getting there, if possible.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - Transponder is not disappointed; it suits him very well that the Eden story is an illogical shambles and scientifically inept and logically and ethically unsound.

IT'S THE BADDEST OF THE WORSTEST, EVER!

E.g it is NOT sympathetic to mans' mistake, rather the punishment is out of proportion and unfair, also to those who didn't even touch the apple. And further problems is the rest of creation who didn't eat the apple including other people outside Eden (such as Hod where apologists explain Cain went to get a non incestuous wive; they didn't eat the fruit,

YOU STICK TO THE CAIN BEING A DIRECT SON, SO!

to explain Man's nature, adapted to survive but not to love their fellow man (nor discover truth). And thus to explain why we are that way without the Potter being to blame for how he made his pots.

ABYSMAL OVERSIMPLIFICATION, AGAIN

So make it a myth about Mans' nature. But then Christian salvation needs it to be a sin that has to be redeemed by sacrifice. Otherwise, you might as well have his Begotten son guillotined to remove the edict against foreskins, which He now doesn't mind.

WHAT!

.When we understand that humans are evolved and thus not designed to be moral, then we can stop fretting about Sin and think in terms of aspiration - knowing where we want to get to and methods of getting there, if possible.

MAKES NO POINT!

Transponder, you busy yourself in the kitchen, ,picking remnants of your Biblical past and you batter at them to augment a dish of your over-zealous atheism. It is a mess.

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

I may be wrong about Cain,the OT is not my speciality. I recall Adam's son got his wife from Nod (which is the Christian apologetic to avoid the whole of mankind being incestuous. I'm willing to be corrected there.

for the rest, I see no point or coherent refutation made by you.

[Masterblaster]

Hello

There is an open invite to God. There should be an open invite among all people to share God. This invite should not be condition-laden or threatening, in any way.....come as you are! We should show the same willingness to engage with each other, under God.

https://youtu.be/MnNHJWbMNDg?si=xww-kSWompEb4A0K

Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello

TRANSPONDER Post 15 - ".When we understand that humans are evolved and thus not designed to be moral, then we can stop fretting about Sin and think in terms of aspiration - knowing where we want to get to and methods of getting there, if possible"
------
I have been considering the underlined words in this.This resonates with the designer thread as well.

Consider this guy's ideas.
EINSTEIN

'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. '

"Problems cannot be solved with the same mind set that created them."

----
I was considering the concept of human REGRESSION, back into God. Theology talks about walking forward to get back onto Eden in some obscure and illogical fashion. It is like knocking on the back door of a closed pub, in the hope that the publican will rescind the barring on you and let you re-enter.

We are very happy with many of our new found opportunities in life. We dress nice, and eat nice things and our technology constantly stimulates our human curiosity .Try taking a phone off someone nowadays.

Regression would be a bitter pill for mankind that would require platforms of consensus that do not currently exist.
Maybe we need to accept the insanity of our modus before anything else.When you give up the drink you notice that the chair needs fixing.

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello

TRANSPONDER Post 15 - ".When we understand that humans are evolved and thus not designed to be moral, then we can stop fretting about Sin and think in terms of aspiration - knowing where we want to get to and methods of getting there, if possible"
------
I have been considering the underlined words in this.This resonates with the designer thread as well.

Consider this guy's ideas.
EINSTEIN

'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. '

"Problems cannot be solved with the same mind set that created them."

----
I was considering the concept of human REGRESSION, back into God. Theology talks about walking forward to get back onto Eden in some obscure and illogical fashion. It is like knocking on the back door of a closed pub, in the hope that the publican will rescind the barring on you and let you re-enter.

We are very happy with many of our new found opportunities in life. We dress nice, and eat nice things and our technology constantly stimulates our human curiosity .Try taking a phone off someone nowadays.

Regression would be a bitter pill for mankind that would require platforms of consensus that do not currently exist.
Maybe we need to accept the insanity of our modus before anything else.When you give up the drink you notice that the chair needs fixing.

Thanks

We don't like change. Covid driving us to internet business has made huge business and social changes. Some don't like it, but it is regression? Not necessarily. It is change. There is no need to rush back to a god (name your own anyway) and no need to have a god anything to do with it. I'm saving the 'irrelevancy of these gaps for god because it doesn't tell you which one, and letting go that social evolution, biological evolution and chemical evolution aren't the same because in a way they are. It is something that nature accounts for and no need for a god (name your own) and problems are the part of any design *koff*737 Max *koff* but progress (economnic engines, sustainable fuels, less carbon emissions, longer range, fussy eaters order inflight meals online (I went for the xstra chilli Rendang and the stewardesses stood and watched me eat it) and the thing is progress is rarely backwards, despite what the Maga cult propaganda AND Religious fundamentalism would have us believe, so we panic to rush to Jesus or MagaJesus for saving.

By and large, science has done us well in knowledge and lifestyle and who would really go back 200 years.

"It was better in the old west where men were strong and wimmun wuz golden and you could just shoot anyone what ye didn't like.."

Fine until you need a tooth out, (Dr McCoy "Cloriform? Can it be that you actually use chloriform?" (old west doctor) "I use whisky"
"Tricky stuff whiskey. Get 'em drunk and one pull on the tooth and bang - stone cold sober." "Whisky's all ah got".

cue cafeteria ,,, preference... "Oh yeah I want to be free and no taxes and do what I like, but I want my modern medicine and internet and mechanised transport.." The term Tiny -minded narcissist tends to spring to mind.

Beef aside, though it often don't seem like it it does overall get better. Make the most of the tip it is now - in 20 years you'll look back on this as a golden age .

Trans writ...

I may be wrong about Cain,the OT is not my speciality. I recall Adam's son got his wife from Nod (which is the Christian apologetic to avoid the whole of mankind being incestuous. I'm willing to be corrected there.

for the rest, I see no point or coherent refutation made by you

.

Yes, it seems right. Cain and Abel were the sons, and I recall that Cain went to Nod to get his wife, an apologetic to get around the yuman race being incestuous.

If Eden was a just the area from Cush to Assyria (there's a dating marker for the writing ) then the Fall only applied to Adam and his descendants, not to the rest of the yumang race (even Paul never thought of that one) so only the hebrews were sinful, only they needed the Law and Gentiles were not subject to Adam's sin and do not need salvation.

Except that we are no better than the Jews (even if we can't agree with Mr. Kemelmann that Jews are better and the Goyyim know it) and it looks like all creation was brought down in and out of Eden.

To which I can only say 'the hand evolution deal us - all of us, and plants and animals too - is the reason we are as we are".

That should be enough for anyone whom can spot a scam, and for those who can't, there is evidence that evolution (chemical, biological and social) is how it works and not by a god (name your own), and to those in denial about it, good luck, we (I anticipate) goddless shall continue to preach, brother. Aye -men.

125 guests brother, we must be doing something right.