Why do the Gospel accounts vary so much? They seem to disagree!

[oldbadger]

The gospel accounts don't agree with each other, or so it seems to me.

For example: Why did the Gospel of Mark tell of the 'Temple clearance' happening in the last week of his mission when the Gospel of John tells us that it happened in the first weeks? ........most strange.

...............and more to come.

[LittleNipper]

The gospel accounts don't agree with each other, or so it seems to me.

For example: Why did the Gospel of Mark tell of the 'Temple clearance' happening in the last week of his mission when the Gospel of John tells us that it happened in the first weeks? ........most strange.

...............and more to come.

I would suggest rereading all the accounts once more. There are marked differences between the details of the accounts. I believe that you will see that these are reports of different events and not reports of the same event. Is it impossible to imagine that JESUS the MESSIAH could not have cleansed the Temple both at the beginning of HIS ministry and again just before HIS crucifixion? This is neither strange nor an impossibility. People have been noted for doing things more than once out of necessity.

I don't think that excuse will wash with anyone with a mind open to reason. I have seen it before (I've seen 'em all before ) On my Other forum one poster argued that ..I think it was the synoptic donkey ride being done when Jesus and the disciples arrive, sometime around noon from Jericho I'd guess, while in John it is clearly after a nights' rest and breakfast, which has knock - ons as finding the donkey is not a prediction but something arranged with the breakfast. And Jesus would not be hungry to forage for figs. In other words, contradictory accounts.

So he tried to claim they were two different events, when clearly they are the same but discrepant..hang on...I need to quote you as I'm on a new page.. Of course this will not do with the death of Judas so they HAVE to be the same events passed off as one reporter says he was hanged and the other says he fell over and burst open, and apologists fiddle them together even though they still contradict. Nor will the messianic event at Bethsaida be passed off as two separate events.

The synoptics have a magical Transformation; John has Jesus escaping the 5,000 Bethsaidan men who want to make him a king. Shades of Jesus seeing the disciples whip out swords and shrinking away in horror: "Enough! Enough! No violence! A rebel I absolutely am not!."

Nor would the rejection at Nazareth (about halfway into the mission in Mark and Matthew, but in Luke it is at the very start) with a messianic declaration and attempted murder that nobody else saw fit to mention. It really won't wash as a separate event any more than the calling of disciples is done twice with Luke adding the miraculous draft of fish. This excuse will not answer, and nor (of course) would the women going twice to the tomb and finding an angel there twice giving the same message, but changed "Sorry, Jesus changed his mind, the disciples don't go to Galilee, but should stay here and found the Church" no more than the women running to the disciples twice, meeting Jesus one time and not meeting him (Luke) the other time.

They are not credibly different events but the same story altered by the writers. And so are the anointing at Bethany which is not in Luke and,in Luke, an anointing in Galilee, which is known to nobody else, nor is the healing of the palsied man (Take up your pallet and walk) in Galilee in the synoptics but in Jerusalem in John.

Nor (I would say at this stage) are the sermons in Matthew and Luke the same sermon given twice, but the same material used in different ways. That's what is happening and explains why the draft of fish (after the resurrection in John, but at the calling of disciples in Luke and used as a parable in Matthew) must be a tale or claim used in different ways, and not separate events.

That excuse will not wash, really. No more than the 'same event described in different ways', nor 'written from different points of view' or 'they forgot' or didn't think kt important. And never mind "It doesn't matter as it isn't doctrinal' (but it does prove invention,contradiction and false claims).

The obvious and correct explanation, but of course not what Believers want to hear, is they are common material used in contradictory ways by writers who were not witnesses to the events and just changed and invented what they wished.

Obviously, it's a reason and YOU are not open to it. If you are interested, you may wish to read the follow: https://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-accounts.html The truth be told, these are in fact honest eyewitness accounts observed and recorded by different people with different perspectives. Even in a police investigation of a crime, unless the eyewitnesses are rehearsed or are collaborating; such perfection would be perceived as troublesome to say the least. Variations are something to be expected where many people are involved unless they are collaborating to hide something...

[oldbadger]

I would suggest rereading all the accounts once more. There are marked differences between the details of the accounts. I believe that you will see that these are reports of different events and not reports of the same event.

I believe that the report of the event in G-John is a deception, trying to reduce its significance. In this way G-John could attempt to fabricate what happened on the last week.

Is it impossible to imagine that JESUS the MESSIAH could not have cleansed the Temple both at the beginning of HIS ministry and again just before HIS crucifixion?

Jesus was not any kind of Messiah in G-Mark....he was a man.
Yes, quite impossible. And clearly if you think that there were two 'cleansings' then the first would surely have been a complete failure.....no?
Entering the Great Temple and committing violence, criminal damage, and then picketing the Temple courts was hardly any kind of cleaning, it was a very serious situation......think of it as similar to the storming of the US government building on 6th Jan. That's why they priesthood wanted the death penalty.

This is neither strange nor an impossibility. People have been noted for doing things more than once out of necessity.

Please do lots of things more than once, but if you trash your country's central religious building and smash stuff up you probably won't get the chance to do it again.

[LittleNipper]

I would suggest rereading all the accounts once more. There are marked differences between the details of the accounts. I believe that you will see that these are reports of different events and not reports of the same event.

I believe that the report of the event in G-John is a deception, trying to reduce its significance. In this way G-John could attempt to fabricate what happened on the last week.

Is it impossible to imagine that JESUS the MESSIAH could not have cleansed the Temple both at the beginning of HIS ministry and again just before HIS crucifixion?

Jesus was not any kind of Messiah in G-Mark....he was a man.

Ordinary men don't go around healing and performing other miracles.

Yes, quite impossible. And clearly if you think that there were two 'cleansings' then the first would surely have been a complete failure.....no?
Entering the Great Temple and committing violence, criminal damage, and then picketing the Temple courts was hardly any kind of cleaning, it was a very serious situation......think of it as similar to the storming of the US government building on 6th Jan. That's why they priesthood wanted the death penalty.

First off, JESUS didn't damage the temple building not its accoutrements. JESUS threw out vendors and salesmen out of HIS (GOD's) HOUSE. And no, even the temple priests ceremoniously cleansed the Temple regularly. Man can be persistent and JESUS obviously had been away for some time...

This is neither strange nor an impossibility. People have been noted for doing things more than once out of necessity.

Please do lots of things more than once, but if you trash your country's central religious building and smash stuff up you probably won't get the chance to do it again.

I've already explained that GOD's place of worship isn't a place for making money and taking improper advantage of those who come to worship GOD.

[oldbadger]

Ordinary men don't go around healing and performing other miracles.

All the miracle claims in G-Mark could have been originally based upon quite natural events. But soon the claims were exaggerated, culminating in G-John which left out the actions which the authors did not think to be fit for their God to get involved with, such as casting demons etc.

First off, JESUS didn't damage the temple building not its accoutrements. JESUS threw out vendors and salesmen out of HIS (GOD's) HOUSE. And no, even the temple priests ceremoniously cleansed the Temple regularly. Man can be persistent and JESUS obviously had been away for some time...

Again, Jesus cleansed nothing, but brought violence, damage and then picketing to the temple.

I've already explained that GOD's place of worship isn't a place for making money and taking improper advantage of those who come to worship GOD.

.........which is what was happening, so much for god's house, eh?..... so Jesus even suggested busting the place up.

[LittleNipper]

Ordinary men don't go around healing and performing other miracles.

All the miracle claims in G-Mark could have been originally based upon quite natural events. But soon the claims were exaggerated, culminating in G-John which left out the actions which the authors did not think to be fit for their God to get involved with, such as casting demons etc.

First off, JESUS didn't damage the temple building not its accoutrements. JESUS threw out vendors and salesmen out of HIS (GOD's) HOUSE. And no, even the temple priests ceremoniously cleansed the Temple regularly. Man can be persistent and JESUS obviously had been away for some time...

Again, Jesus cleansed nothing, but brought violence, damage and then picketing to the temple.

I've already explained that GOD's place of worship isn't a place for making money and taking improper advantage of those who come to worship GOD.

.........which is what was happening, so much for god's house, eh?..... so Jesus even suggested busting the place up.

You display some vendetta or you have not read the book of MARK. You clearly stated that MARK unlike the other gospels contained NO miracles, and I've show that you are in error in that regard.
As for the temple HE overthrew the money changers tables. CHRIST/MESSIAH predicted the temple would be torn to the ground and it was so in 70 AD. So get over it. You seem to show more regard for wood and store than the human soul.

Listed are the miracles as recorded in the Book of Mark. You explain which ones are the ability of any man living at that time or even today for that matter: Jesus casts out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23–28). This miracle demonstrated Jesus’ power over the forces of evil. The people of Capernaum were amazed and asked, “What new doctrine is this?”
Healing Peter’s mother in- law (Mark 1:29–34). JESUS demonstrates His power over sickness. As a result, the people brought the sick and demon-possessed to HIM to be healed.
Healing a paralyzed man (Mark 2:1–12). JESUS displays HIS power over sickness and HIS authority to forgive. The Pharisees questioned JESUS’ authority to forgive, but the people glorified GOD.
Healing a man with a withered hand (Mark 3:1–6). In this story, Mark tells of not only the power of JESUS over sickness but HIS authority to do good on the Sabbath. The Pharisees wanted to accuse JESUS of breaking the Sabbath and began to plot against HIM.
Calming a storm (Mark 4:35–41). The power of JESUS over nature is illustrated here. The disciples were afraid and asked, “Who can this be?”
Raising Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5:21–24, 35–43). JESUS’ power over death. The family of Jairus is overcome with amazement.
Feeding the five thousand (Mark 6:30–44). JESUS’ power to provide food. The disciples hearts were hardened, and they did not understand what the miracle meant.
Walking on the sea (Mark 6:45–52). JESUS’ power above nature. The disciples were greatly amazed.
Healing a deaf-mute (Mark 7:31–37). The power of JESUS over the ability to hear and speak. The people spread the news of JESUS and were astonished.
Casting out a deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:14–29). The power of JESUS over the forces of evil, and the source of His power: prayer. The disciples asked JESUS what was the source of His power.

JESUS willingly allowed HIMSELF to be crucified so that man might be saved --- casting out demons is the least of it. NOTHING is either too BIG or too small for GOD. Ephesians 3:20-21 Now unto HIM that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto HIM be glory in the church by CHRIST JESUS throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

[TRANSPONDER]

Credit where deserved. You are right with Mark having some of the miracles. As it is one of the synoptics, one would expect it to derive from the same common source (it is not the original despite that seemingly being Scholarship opinion) and have many of the same stories.

I don't know what our pal Badger's argument was, but Mark does have miracles.

I see one thing is pointing up that Jesus is a man in Mark and becomes more godlike in later gospels. I agree with that. Mark's Jesus has the spirit descend on him at the baptism. This gives him not only the power to do miracles (even John says not by himself but by the power of the spirit) but knowledge - sometimes. Clearly God tells him wrong (about Noah and Eden) and sickness caused by demons, but not knowing who touched him or that he would help the Canaanite woman in he end. And in Mark, Jesus is trundled around the landscape by the spirit like a RC dump truck. Lter he is more guided around by his spiritual help, and in John, God wears Jesus the man like a see - through nightie.

Not to mention asking to be let off crucifixion when he should have known that was the plan and could not be changed. But that is down to Luke who (unlike Matthew) did not understand that killing Jesus was good and necessary and trying to save him was fighting God's plan. But none of the Bible savants seem to get this - Judas, the Romans, the Sanhedrin and (not for the first time, God's gofor, Satan) were doing God's work, enabling the act of saving sacrifice, while the supposed good guys like Pilate were 'speaking as men speak, not as God speaks'.

But these are not really problems after all,are they, as Believers ignore them and unbelievers disbelieve them.

[oldbadger]

You display some vendetta or you have not read the book of MARK. You clearly stated that MARK unlike the other gospels contained NO miracles, and I've show that you are in error in that regard.

No. I am proposing that all the miracles featured on the gospels are untrue, but that all the claims of miracles in G-Mark were based upon things that Jesus actually did.

As for the temple HE overthrew the money changers tables. CHRIST/MESSIAH predicted the temple would be torn to the ground and it was so in 70 AD. So get over it. You seem to show more regard for wood and store than the human soul.

You accuse me of not reading G-Mark, but show that you have not grasped what he did in the Great Temple during that Monday and Tuesday. You've not mentioned the sacrifice sellers not the picketing!

I don't think you have really read it at all.
Tell me: What did Jesus do in the Temple on Palm Sunday ?

Listed are the miracles as recorded in the Book of Mark. You explain which ones are the ability of any man living at that time or even today for that matter: Jesus casts out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23–28). This miracle demonstrated Jesus’ power over the forces of evil. The people of Capernaum were amazed and asked, “What new doctrine is this?”
Healing Peter’s mother in- law (Mark 1:29–34). JESUS demonstrates His power over sickness. As a result, the people brought the sick and demon-possessed to HIM to be healed.
Healing a paralyzed man (Mark 2:1–12). JESUS displays HIS power over sickness and HIS authority to forgive. The Pharisees questioned JESUS’ authority to forgive, but the people glorified GOD.
Healing a man with a withered hand (Mark 3:1–6). In this story, Mark tells of not only the power of JESUS over sickness but HIS authority to do good on the Sabbath. The Pharisees wanted to accuse JESUS of breaking the Sabbath and began to plot against HIM.
Calming a storm (Mark 4:35–41). The power of JESUS over nature is illustrated here. The disciples were afraid and asked, “Who can this be?”
Raising Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5:21–24, 35–43). JESUS’ power over death. The family of Jairus is overcome with amazement.
Feeding the five thousand (Mark 6:30–44). JESUS’ power to provide food. The disciples hearts were hardened, and they did not understand what the miracle meant.
Walking on the sea (Mark 6:45–52). JESUS’ power above nature. The disciples were greatly amazed.
Healing a deaf-mute (Mark 7:31–37). The power of JESUS over the ability to hear and speak. The people spread the news of JESUS and were astonished.
Casting out a deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:14–29). The power of JESUS over the forces of evil, and the source of His power: prayer. The disciples asked JESUS what was the source of His power.

So you wasted your time writing all that because I am aware of the miracles.
And you missed a few!
All had natural explanations.

JESUS willingly allowed HIMSELF to be crucified so that man might be saved --- casting out demons is the least of it. NOTHING is either too BIG or too small for GOD. Ephesians 3:20-21 Now unto HIM that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto HIM be glory in the church by CHRIST JESUS throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

As if Paul cared about what Jesus said or did!
Apart from continuous mentions of last meal, execution and back to life, Paul never wrote a sentence about what Jesus said or did.

[LittleNipper]

You display some vendetta or you have not read the book of MARK. You clearly stated that MARK unlike the other gospels contained NO miracles, and I've show that you are in error in that regard.

No. I am proposing that all the miracles featured on the gospels are untrue, but that all the claims of miracles in G-Mark were based upon things that Jesus actually did.

As for the temple HE overthrew the money changers tables. CHRIST/MESSIAH predicted the temple would be torn to the ground and it was so in 70 AD. So get over it. You seem to show more regard for wood and store than the human soul.

You accuse me of not reading G-Mark, but show that you have not grasped what he did in the Great Temple during that Monday and Tuesday. You've not mentioned the sacrifice sellers not the picketing!

I don't think you have really read it at all.
Tell me: What did Jesus do in the Temple on Palm Sunday ?

Listed are the miracles as recorded in the Book of Mark. You explain which ones are the ability of any man living at that time or even today for that matter: Jesus casts out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23–28). This miracle demonstrated Jesus’ power over the forces of evil. The people of Capernaum were amazed and asked, “What new doctrine is this?”
Healing Peter’s mother in- law (Mark 1:29–34). JESUS demonstrates His power over sickness. As a result, the people brought the sick and demon-possessed to HIM to be healed.
Healing a paralyzed man (Mark 2:1–12). JESUS displays HIS power over sickness and HIS authority to forgive. The Pharisees questioned JESUS’ authority to forgive, but the people glorified GOD.
Healing a man with a withered hand (Mark 3:1–6). In this story, Mark tells of not only the power of JESUS over sickness but HIS authority to do good on the Sabbath. The Pharisees wanted to accuse JESUS of breaking the Sabbath and began to plot against HIM.
Calming a storm (Mark 4:35–41). The power of JESUS over nature is illustrated here. The disciples were afraid and asked, “Who can this be?”
Raising Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5:21–24, 35–43). JESUS’ power over death. The family of Jairus is overcome with amazement.
Feeding the five thousand (Mark 6:30–44). JESUS’ power to provide food. The disciples hearts were hardened, and they did not understand what the miracle meant.
Walking on the sea (Mark 6:45–52). JESUS’ power above nature. The disciples were greatly amazed.
Healing a deaf-mute (Mark 7:31–37). The power of JESUS over the ability to hear and speak. The people spread the news of JESUS and were astonished.
Casting out a deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:14–29). The power of JESUS over the forces of evil, and the source of His power: prayer. The disciples asked JESUS what was the source of His power.

So you wasted your time writing all that because I am aware of the miracles.
And you missed a few!
All had natural explanations.

JESUS willingly allowed HIMSELF to be crucified so that man might be saved --- casting out demons is the least of it. NOTHING is either too BIG or too small for GOD. Ephesians 3:20-21 Now unto HIM that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto HIM be glory in the church by CHRIST JESUS throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

As if Paul cared about what Jesus said or did!
Apart from continuous mentions of last meal, execution and back to life, Paul never wrote a sentence about what Jesus said or did.

JESUS cleansed the temple. There are no "natural" explanations for such timed events, and only "naturalist" are seeking for them. Paul was a devout Jew who experienced a miraculous visitation from the MESSIAH/CHRIST after the MESSIAH ascended. Paul (formerly Saul) approached the meaning of salvation, and even worked among the gentiles.

[TRANSPONDER]

You display some vendetta or you have not read the book of MARK. You clearly stated that MARK unlike the other gospels contained NO miracles, and I've show that you are in error in that regard.

No. I am proposing that all the miracles featured on the gospels are untrue, but that all the claims of miracles in G-Mark were based upon things that Jesus actually did.

As for the temple HE overthrew the money changers tables. CHRIST/MESSIAH predicted the temple would be torn to the ground and it was so in 70 AD. So get over it. You seem to show more regard for wood and store than the human soul.

You accuse me of not reading G-Mark, but show that you have not grasped what he did in the Great Temple during that Monday and Tuesday. You've not mentioned the sacrifice sellers not the picketing!

I don't think you have really read it at all.
Tell me: What did Jesus do in the Temple on Palm Sunday ?

Listed are the miracles as recorded in the Book of Mark. You explain which ones are the ability of any man living at that time or even today for that matter: Jesus casts out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23–28). This miracle demonstrated Jesus’ power over the forces of evil. The people of Capernaum were amazed and asked, “What new doctrine is this?”
Healing Peter’s mother in- law (Mark 1:29–34). JESUS demonstrates His power over sickness. As a result, the people brought the sick and demon-possessed to HIM to be healed.
Healing a paralyzed man (Mark 2:1–12). JESUS displays HIS power over sickness and HIS authority to forgive. The Pharisees questioned JESUS’ authority to forgive, but the people glorified GOD.
Healing a man with a withered hand (Mark 3:1–6). In this story, Mark tells of not only the power of JESUS over sickness but HIS authority to do good on the Sabbath. The Pharisees wanted to accuse JESUS of breaking the Sabbath and began to plot against HIM.
Calming a storm (Mark 4:35–41). The power of JESUS over nature is illustrated here. The disciples were afraid and asked, “Who can this be?”
Raising Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5:21–24, 35–43). JESUS’ power over death. The family of Jairus is overcome with amazement.
Feeding the five thousand (Mark 6:30–44). JESUS’ power to provide food. The disciples hearts were hardened, and they did not understand what the miracle meant.
Walking on the sea (Mark 6:45–52). JESUS’ power above nature. The disciples were greatly amazed.
Healing a deaf-mute (Mark 7:31–37). The power of JESUS over the ability to hear and speak. The people spread the news of JESUS and were astonished.
Casting out a deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:14–29). The power of JESUS over the forces of evil, and the source of His power: prayer. The disciples asked JESUS what was the source of His power.

So you wasted your time writing all that because I am aware of the miracles.
And you missed a few!
All had natural explanations.

JESUS willingly allowed HIMSELF to be crucified so that man might be saved --- casting out demons is the least of it. NOTHING is either too BIG or too small for GOD. Ephesians 3:20-21 Now unto HIM that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto HIM be glory in the church by CHRIST JESUS throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

As if Paul cared about what Jesus said or did!
Apart from continuous mentions of last meal, execution and back to life, Paul never wrote a sentence about what Jesus said or did.

JESUS cleansed the temple. There are no "natural" explanations for such timed events, and only "naturalist" are seeking for them. Paul was a devout Jew who experienced a miraculous visitation from the MESSIAH/CHRIST after the MESSIAH ascended. Paul (formerly Saul) approached the meaning of salvation, and even worked among the gentiles.

There has to be a better explanation for the Temple -cleansing than what we get. It makes no sense that Jesus suddenly lost his rag with the Temple -trade which he would have seen every time he visited the Temple. You can't expect anyone to believe that he had never in thirty years he had never been to any of the yearly festivals. Nor that with Pilate and 1000 soldiers on guard against any such disturbance he would get away with it.

And Paul is remarkably reticent about Jesus earthly doings and especially teachings. The teachings we get are Pauls' own. Apart from the ritualistic 'last supper' all we get is that Jesus was crucified. No argument from me about that.

Why was he executed? On a charge of sedition 'King of the Jews'claimant is what the charge was. The Blasphemy charge makes no sense in Judaism - claiming to be a messiah. Any anointed (priest or ruler) was a Messiah. It only makes sense in Christian terms - claiming to be God, effectively.

There are indications that the real reason for the execution was the bust - up in the Temple First, Pilate was there - he knew what Jesus had done, and yet never was that event even mentioned as a valid charge. It is being studiously ignored.

As I said Pilate would be on guard at a festival with the Jerusalem garrison and the 500 soldiers he brought from Caesarea - 1000 in all. Jesus - sooner or later - would have been grabbed and tried for causing this disruption. I'd argue this is just what happened, at least, and the writers know it and do all the can to disguise it, John even removing the event entirely.

I think there's more to it than that even but that's enough o argue that we are not getting the true story but a Christian - whitewashed version of it.

[oldbadger]

There has to be a better explanation for the Temple -cleansing than what we get. It makes no sense that Jesus suddenly lost his rag with the Temple -trade which he would have seen every time he visited the Temple. You can't expect anyone to believe that he had never in thirty years he had never been to any of the yearly festivals. Nor that with Pilate and 1000 soldiers on guard against any such disturbance he would get away with it.

I don't believe that Jesus 'suddenly lost his rag'. I think that he went to that feast on that occasion to deliberately do what he did. He even spent time the day before, checking the whole temple out.
I'm reminded of Barabbas whenever I read about this........ A riot, one death, Jesus Barabbas (son of the Father) arrested but later freed on an excuse because it might have been looking very dodgy if the crowd's favourite was executed.

And Paul is remarkably reticent about Jesus earthly doings and especially teachings. The teachings we get are Pauls' own. Apart from the ritualistic 'last supper' all we get is that Jesus was crucified. No argument from me about that.

Absolutely! The new religion was Paul's, absoluteky!

Why was he executed? On a charge of sedition 'King of the Jews'claimant is what the charge was. The Blasphemy charge makes no sense in Judaism - claiming to be a messiah. Any anointed (priest or ruler) was a Messiah. It only makes sense in Christian terms - claiming to be God, effectively.

The G-John version, that. Total hogwash imo.
He may have been taken down alive, or even not executed at all.
Of course that doesn't suit the Christian ideas.

There are indications that the real reason for the execution was the bust - up in the Temple First, Pilate was there - he knew what Jesus had done, and yet never was that event even mentioned as a valid charge. It is being studiously ignored.

As I said Pilate would be on guard at a festival with the Jerusalem garrison and the 500 soldiers he brought from Caesarea - 1000 in all. Jesus - sooner or later - would have been grabbed and tried for causing this disruption. I'd argue this is just what happened, at least, and the writers know it and do all the can to disguise it, John even removing the event entirely.

Agreed.

I think there's more to it than that even but that's enough o argue that we are not getting the true story but a Christian - whitewashed version of it.

Oh yes! The Christian account is nearly all church dogma and Pauline letters to the congregation. Paul's letters and G-John are repeated more often than the first three gospels.