Is Christian Doctrine predicated on Doom?

[Masterblaster]

I think it is!
There is a dark cloud over all this that almost extinguishes the Jesus message of hope. That is my opinion. What is yours?

Let us look for Doom. Let us look for Hope.

Where does the root lie?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

On a basic level, look at all these failed entities within the narrative.
-the Eden Project
- the Babel project
- the Flood debacle
-the enslavement in Egypt or Babylon or ...
-the exposure of Hell and Revelation

The list goes on....not exactly cheerful stuff.
And that is without looking at actual history or specific Christian Doctrine? This is just background.

[boatsnguitars]

I think it is!
There is a dark cloud over all this that almost extinguishes the Jesus message of hope. That is my opinion. What is yours?

Let us look for Doom. Let us look for Hope.

Where does the root lie?

It was a death/blood cult. Jesus was an apocalyptical preacher. The Church hangs Jesus's dead body in all their buildings. Paul was a violent bigot who found a comfortable home in the Church. We know the Church has a long history of killing, torturing, persecuting. The Church hid, for decades, maybe centuries, the rape, abuse and killing of children. Popes have had notoriously poor moral values. Their Saints are also of notoriously questionable quality.
The Bible promises Jesus will return with a sword in his mouth, and non-Christians will be killed, tortured, or otherwise mistreated - and Christians revel in this. From the OT to today, Christians continue to fulfill passages in the Bible where they are called to kill or at least act out against.
Christians love to hang outside of medical centers and hold up photos of people who have lost their babies (They don't show actual abortions, they show images of babies that were stillborn, to the horror and grief of the mother, but Christians use that as public entertainment, like they used to burn people alive at the stake.)
Christians continue to use fear tactics to try to convince people to join their cult.

The fool says in his heart, "There is a God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. The Universe looks down on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek Reality.

[Masterblaster]

Hello

This is my favourite 'Final Countdown'.
I find it hilariously terrifying, if that is possible.
Even God leaves with his hands over his eyes.

Genesis 18

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place

[Masterblaster]

Hello boatsnguitars

You say(as part of your excellent post) - "It was a death/blood cult. Jesus was an apocalyptical preacher"

Is it possible that the Jesus of the Gospels was portrayed as such. Do you consider error in this portrayal. I personally believe that the real Jesus was missed. The tail does not match the dog. I will discuss this if you wish.
There is Hope in this, Perhaps!

Matthew ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

[boatsnguitars]

Hello boatsnguitars

You say(as part of your excellent post) - "It was a death/blood cult. Jesus was an apocalyptical preacher"

Is it possible that the Jesus of the Gospels was portrayed as such. Do you consider error in this portrayal. I personally believe that the real Jesus was missed. The tail does not match the dog. I will discuss this if you wish.
There is Hope in this, Perhaps!

Matthew ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Each book of the Bible twists the concept of Jesus to its own end. Which portrays the real Jesus, if any? Who knows! The truth is forever lost, as all history is truly lost.
However, we know Christians willingly put themselves in situations that led them to be crucified, or otherwise abused, for not much more than hissy fits about not being taken seriously. They were glad to follow their leader into the afterlife.
Saul was happy help them in this quest until his conscience began to bother him. Then, he joined them.

There was no grand teaching from Jesus. It wasn't novel, not even the sacrificial part. It was a muddle of grievences that all people have. We treat it as special because people throughout history do great things, regardless of religion. But the church loves to give credit to Jesus.
But Greeks, Romans, Polynesian all treated people well, did kind things, didn't rape kids. Christianity can be credited for some goods - when compared with worse regions, but its not like Christianity stands alone, singularly unimpeachable, a shining example of a perfect theology.

There are good people, some of them are Christian, but they would have been good without Xianity.

But to get people to kill themselves, or get killed for religious views, that's uniquely evil.

[Masterblaster]

Hello boatsnguitars

You say - "There was no grand teaching from Jesus."

Much of your submission contains an awful lot of truth, in my humble opinion, but I disagree with the small sentence above.

I think Jesus was completely new. I believe that we still do not fully grasp his ideas. Do not judge a book by its cover, and all that.
Where did the Beatitudes come from?

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes. The Abraham countdown is a favourite of mine, too. It really makes God look pretty dumb in being fooled by a 'fallacy of the beard'. Cue. 'God knew the was going to forgive them anyway', just as Jesus knew he's help the Syrio -phoenecian woman and Jesus though he might be let off crucifixion at the last minute. But then God knew that Adam would fall,right? So it was a deliberate stitch -up, which is what it looks like, anyway. He knew He would repent of the flood afterwards, so he couldn't have found a ';Best possible world' that meant he didn't have to do that? It makes no sense; it never did.

And the blood sacrifice (however the apologists spin it as an act of love) is also reprehensible and pretty pointless. But the real point here is that Christianity IS predicated on doom,judgement and punishment. Those who revise it to make it a bit more user friends (UR and 'separation from God' are rewriting Christianity to suit themselves. I approve the slither towards Bible and Christian skepticism, but it is showing an inability to stomach the Doom -cult that Christianity undoubtedly is or was.

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #8]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Genesis 18:17 "Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? "

Poor old God was dreading his encounter with Abraham. It was like visiting relatives at Christmastime. He was really off his game and he spoke more in Genesis 18 than he did in the rest of time.
What I find fascinating about this piece, and after all we are talking about the Abrahmic Faith's, is that this is an Area 51, classified conversation.

You get these grandiose conversations about God speaking to me, etc .The people insisting that God speaks to us through the Bible , never refer to the auld guy being out-manovered by Abraham in Genesis 18. That is funny.

I love the Jewish bartering, look how Abraham got God down to 45 without mentioning the number.

"28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it."

Then he jumps from 30 to 10.

[TRANSPONDER]

God had the last laugh though, no matter whatever bartered deal he made with Abraham, he destroyed Sodom, and another city along with it, just to show who was really boss.

Mind, sometimes God gets outplayed, as you suggest.



N.b God may not be offended by Certain Words by You Tube is.