Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[Difflugia]

No, Jesus spoke of Gehenna as the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.

Can you support that? You've asserted it many, many times, but never offered a reason to think that it's true.

The lake of fire is symbolic of eternal annihilation, and is found in the book of Revelation which is a book of symbols.

In Revelation 14:1, what does the number 144,000 symbolize? It's obviously not meant to be understood literally, right?

[1213]

No, Jesus spoke of Gehenna as the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.

Please show the scripture.

The lake of fire is symbolic of eternal annihilation...

I don't think there is anything in the Bible supporting that.

[onewithhim]

No, Jesus spoke of Gehenna as the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.

Please show the scripture.

The lake of fire is symbolic of eternal annihilation...

I don't think there is anything in the Bible supporting that.

You'll have to look to history to see that Gehenna was a garbage dump. It is well known. Jesus referred to the Pharisees as "liable for Gehenna," meaning they were in line to be annihilated.

As for the Bible supporting the lake of fire being symbolic, the whole book of Revelation is symbolic, so why would you think that the lake of fire was not? "This is the revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show his slaves what must soon occur. He sent it by means of SYMBOLS through his angel, to his slave John." (Revelation 1:1, 21st Century New Testament)

So the lake of fire is as literal as the locusts in chapter 9 that had hair like womens' hair and teeth like lions and crowns on their heads,... or, the wild beast that comes out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads. Are they literal? If the lake of fire is literal, so are those examples. And how about the woman sitting on a wild beast in a wilderness with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication (chapter 17)? Is that literal or does it mean something else?

The lake of fire symbolizes eternal destruction.

[Difflugia]

You'll have to look to history to see that Gehenna was a garbage dump. It is well known.

Then you should have had no problem finding a reliable source any of the times you've been asked. Instead, I've gone to the trouble of making sure you never have to be wrong about this again.

From Jesus and the Kingdom of God by George Raymond Beasley-Murray, pp. 376-377:

the whole book of Revelation is symbolic

What does "144,000" symbolize?

What does each of the seven churches in Asia, like Pergamum, Ephesus, and Thyatira symbolically represent?

What are the "thousand years" symbolic of?

What does "reign with Christ" symbolize?

Unless nothing in Revelation is meant literally, "Revelation is symbolic" isn't enough.

So the lake of fire is as literal as the locusts in chapter 9 that had hair like womens' hair and teeth like lions and crowns on their heads,

Is it as literal as "the first resurrection" or "the Lord our God, the Almighty?"

[onewithhim]

You'll have to look to history to see that Gehenna was a garbage dump. It is well known.

Then you should have had no problem finding a reliable source any of the times you've been asked. Instead, I've gone to the trouble of making sure you never have to be wrong about this again.

From Jesus and the Kingdom of God by George Raymond Beasley-Murray, pp. 376-377:

the whole book of Revelation is symbolic

What does "144,000" symbolize?

What does each of the seven churches in Asia, like Pergamum, Ephesus, and Thyatira symbolically represent?

What are the "thousand years" symbolic of?

What does "reign with Christ" symbolize?

Unless nothing in Revelation is meant literally, "Revelation is symbolic" isn't enough.

So the lake of fire is as literal as the locusts in chapter 9 that had hair like womens' hair and teeth like lions and crowns on their heads,

Is it as literal as "the first resurrection" or "the Lord our God, the Almighty?"

I have no argument concerning the sacrifices of people to Moloch in the valley of "Gehenna." That is true, and they were burned up to non-existence, which is the point of Christ.

So you say that the locusts with womens' hair is literal?

[1213]

As for the Bible supporting the lake of fire being symbolic, the whole book of Revelation is symbolic, so why would you think that the lake of fire was not? "This is the revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show his slaves what must soon occur. He sent it by means of SYMBOLS through his angel, to his slave John." (Revelation 1:1, 21st Century New Testament)

That is an interesting translation. Would be nice to know why there is added the "symbols", when many other translations don't have that. Like for example Green's literal:

"A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His slaves things which must occur quickly. And He signified by sending through His angel to His slave, John,"
John 1:1

I believe the story is more than symbolical. But, it is not my problem, if other people don't believe so.

[onewithhim]

As for the Bible supporting the lake of fire being symbolic, the whole book of Revelation is symbolic, so why would you think that the lake of fire was not? "This is the revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show his slaves what must soon occur. He sent it by means of SYMBOLS through his angel, to his slave John." (Revelation 1:1, 21st Century New Testament)

That is an interesting translation. Would be nice to know why there is added the "symbols", when many other translations don't have that. Like for example Green's literal:

"A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His slaves things which must occur quickly. And He signified by sending through His angel to His slave, John,"
John 1:1

I believe the story is more than symbolical. But, it is not my problem, if other people don't believe so.

"Signified" means in signs or symbols.

[Difflugia]

So you say that the locusts with womens' hair is literal?

No, but I don't claim that nothing in Revelation is figurative.

You, on the other hand, have claimed that everything in Revelation is figurative and used it as justification for one of your claims:

As for the Bible supporting the lake of fire being symbolic, the whole book of Revelation is symbolic, so why would you think that the lake of fire was not?

If that's not what you meant, then your argumemt carries no weight. My position is that some things in Revelation are meant to be symbolic and some things are meant to be literal. If the 144,000 is meant to be a literal number, then you must believe that, too. Do you?

[1213]

As for the Bible supporting the lake of fire being symbolic, the whole book of Revelation is symbolic, so why would you think that the lake of fire was not? "This is the revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show his slaves what must soon occur. He sent it by means of SYMBOLS through his angel, to his slave John." (Revelation 1:1, 21st Century New Testament)

That is an interesting translation. Would be nice to know why there is added the "symbols", when many other translations don't have that. Like for example Green's literal:

"A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His slaves things which must occur quickly. And He signified by sending through His angel to His slave, John,"
John 1:1

I believe the story is more than symbolical. But, it is not my problem, if other people don't believe so.

"Signified" means in signs or symbols.

Sorry, I had "John 1:1" in my last post, although it should have been "Rev. 1:1".

But, anyway, I don't think signified means in that it is symbols.

By what I know, the word means, to give a sign, indicate, to make known.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

These are always interesting answers. Does a physical place (xyz) exist. Why, let’s get out the dictionary to see if we can talk ourselves out of the reality by use of definitions.

Do leprechauns exist because there’s a word for them? Do feelings or experiences like having a child not exist because the dictionary has no word that anyone experiencing this can identify as accurate?

The silliness of their argument is obvious to bilinguals and probably difficult for monolinguals. I know there are words in my second language that perfectly describe something powerfully real that you just can’t say in English. There’s no word in English but it still exists.


The dictionary is a very poor counselor when it comes to reality. Words might describe reality but they actually have zero affect upon it.