So what would make a secular scientist believe in GOD?

[LittleNipper]

Presented here, so that we may have a place to start is one biochemist's (Dr, Sy Garte) journey from staunch atheist to firm believer: So, why are you a believer, or what would you need to become a believer in some Creator GOD.

[LittleNipper]

Here an Oxford Mathematician (Professor John Lennox) presents 15 minutes of logic for his reason for his belief in a CREATOR:

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #1]

what would you need to become a believer in some Creator GOD.

Certainly not videos of Christian scientists. There are plenty of scientists who are a believers, and plenty who are not (same for any other group of humans). The fact that Newton, Planck, or Maxwell or many of the other famous scientists were believers has no bearing whatsoever on whether gods exist or not, or whether they were right.

For me, I'd need a lot more than just some scientist or other person making a personal claim, no matter how famous they are. I'd need a lot more proof than that, such as an actual appearance, or an experience that would convince me beyond doubt that a god being had to be involved or responsible. That is, some kind of concrete evidence that was convincing to me. So far, of the thousands of gods humans have invented over the millennia, not even one of them has actually been demonstrated to exist as a real entity. Many (most) are defined in such a way that their existence can't be verified or demonstrated in any way (eg. a personal revelation is needed, or the holy spirit will make itself known to those who believe, or some such scenario).

Until one of these beings is demonstrated to exist in a convincing way (to me), I'll continue to assume they don't. I'm convinced there will be no consequences.

[Eloi]

... For me, I'd need a lot more than just some scientist or other person making a personal claim, no matter how famous they are. I'd need a lot more proof than that, such as an actual appearance, or an experience that would convince me beyond doubt ...

Who are you talking about?

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Eloi in post #4]

Who are you talking about?

The OP question was:

"what would you need to become a believer in some Creator GOD."

Use of the word "you" would refer to the reader, and since I responded using my handle the "who" in your question would obviously be me.

[Eloi]

This is not you

I'd need a lot more than just some scientist or other person making a personal claim, no matter how famous they are. I'd need a lot more proof than that, such as an actual appearance, or an experience that would convince me beyond doubt

You need to know yourself better. Ask others about how you are. You can also read your own posts in the forum.

Evidently you can't think objectively.

[otseng]

Evidently you can't think objectively.

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[boatsnguitars]

Presented here, so that we may have a place to start is one biochemist's (Dr, Sy Garte) journey from staunch atheist to firm believer: So, why are you a believer, or what would you need to become a believer in some Creator GOD.

https://peacefulscience.org/articles/sy ... urrection/

Reading his story is like it's cut and pasted from every other religious zealots diary. It's the classic "Believe me, because I didn't believe, but now I do - buy my book!"

He says he saw Jesus in a dream after reading the Bible the second time through. Clearly he was priming himself to become religious. The fact that he's a scientist is unimportant to the story.

It's a big nothingburger, but I imagine many young Christians see this as a big deal. That one guy became religious - as if it's an argument for God.

He had a dream and feelings. Hardly compelling.

[LittleNipper]

Presented here, so that we may have a place to start is one biochemist's (Dr, Sy Garte) journey from staunch atheist to firm believer: So, why are you a believer, or what would you need to become a believer in some Creator GOD.

https://peacefulscience.org/articles/sy ... urrection/

Reading his story is like it's cut and pasted from every other religious zealots diary. It's the classic "Believe me, because I didn't believe, but now I do - buy my book!"

He says he saw Jesus in a dream after reading the Bible the second time through. Clearly he was priming himself to become religious. The fact that he's a scientist is unimportant to the story.

It's a big nothingburger, but I imagine many young Christians see this as a big deal. That one guy became religious - as if it's an argument for God.

He had a dream and feelings. Hardly compelling.

You remind me of the story of the rich man and Lazarus told by Jesus in Luke Chapter 16:19-21

“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried,
23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’
27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’
29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’ ”

What Jesus seem to be indicating is that if someone turns his nose up at the Word of GOD he is as good as in hell already. There's nothing that will convince him...

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #9]

What Jesus seem to be indicating is that if someone turns his nose up at the Word of GOD he is as good as in hell already. There's nothing that will convince him...

One usual side benefit of not believing that gods exist is also the belief that hell does not exit (or heaven, devils, etc.). So being in "hell" isn't really a threat to worry about. But as for your example of someone adopting a religion when before they didn't, there are plenty of examples of the opposite. In my case I was raised in a very Christian household, believed it all for the most part as a kid, was "saved" and all the rest of it. Everyone I knew was a Christian of some sort.

Then I went to college, finished my education, and got a job where I met a Hindu couple from India. After many lunch conversations with them I realized I had never really studied religion as a subject or considered the different religions of the world, their basis, doctrines, etc. This was before the internet, so I spent time in a library educating myself on the different religions of the world, the many different god concepts and their histories., and it became clear to me that they could not all possibly be true. My Hindu friends were just as absolutely, positively convinced their views were correct, to the same level as all the Christians I grew up with. You can say this about most religious people ... they are convinced only their god(s) are real, and their religion correct, to the exclusion of all others.

After some time, I became convinced that the only explanation that was consistent with everything we know about gods, afterlives, etc. was that they don't exist. It explained the whole subject (to me), so I became an atheist in my mid 20s. Nearly 40 years later I have yet to see or learn anything to change that position. It wasn't a matter of "turning his nose up to the Word of GOD" as you put it, but taking stock of the whole situation and coming to the conclusion that gods most likely do not exist, and never did.