The good seed

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Bobcat
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The good seed

Post #1

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In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?

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Eddie Ramos
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Re: The good seed

Post #2

Post by Eddie Ramos »

Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
The followers (or disciples) of Christ are merely servants of God. Whenever they go and do that which is their duty to do per the scriptures, it is not them who do it but God which worketh in them to will and to do (to work) his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


The son of man is none other than Jesus Christ, he is the one who sows the good seed (as the scriptures say). What we do in obedience as disciples reflects back to him as the one doing the work and not the other way around. If we look at these two scriptures, we can see it perhaps a bit more clearly.

Romans 10:15 (KJV 1900)
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

In the above passage, God is addressing the people who preach the truth of the gospel and makes reference to the beauty of their feet as they go forth to preach. But if you notice, this verse says, "as it is written", which often means that it was taken from an Old Testament passage. Well, when we find it, we discover something quite interesting. We find that the original way this was written was making reference to one person only and not to multiple people. It was making reference to Christ as the context of the chapter makes clear.

Isaiah 52:6–7 13-15 (KJV 1900)
6  Therefore my people shall know my name:
Therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

7  How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace;
That bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation;
That saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

13  Behold, my servant shall deal prudently,
He shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14  As many were astonied at thee;
His visage was so marred more than any man,
And his form more than the sons of men:
15  So shall he sprinkle many nations;
The kings shall shut their mouths at him:
For that which had not been told them shall they see;
And that which they had not heard shall they consider.



Another example can be found in Noah, whom the Bible calls a preacher of righteousness. Yet we read that Christ was the one doing the preaching while the ark was preparing.

1 Peter 3:18–20 (KJV 1900)
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he (Christ) went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In other words, everything the true children of God do is done through Christ. He gets the credit, he gets the glory because outside of Christ, our works of righteousness are as filthy rags.

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Re: The good seed

Post #3

Post by Bobcat »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
The followers (or disciples) of Christ are merely servants of God. Whenever they go and do that which is their duty to do per the scriptures, it is not them who do it but God which worketh in them to will and to do (to work) his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


The son of man is none other than Jesus Christ, he is the one who sows the good seed (as the scriptures say). What we do in obedience as disciples reflects back to him as the one doing the work and not the other way around. If we look at these two scriptures, we can see it perhaps a bit more clearly.

Romans 10:15 (KJV 1900)
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

In the above passage, God is addressing the people who preach the truth of the gospel and makes reference to the beauty of their feet as they go forth to preach. But if you notice, this verse says, "as it is written", which often means that it was taken from an Old Testament passage. Well, when we find it, we discover something quite interesting. We find that the original way this was written was making reference to one person only and not to multiple people. It was making reference to Christ as the context of the chapter makes clear.

Isaiah 52:6–7 13-15 (KJV 1900)
6  Therefore my people shall know my name:
Therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

7  How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace;
That bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation;
That saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

13  Behold, my servant shall deal prudently,
He shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
14  As many were astonied at thee;
His visage was so marred more than any man,
And his form more than the sons of men:
15  So shall he sprinkle many nations;
The kings shall shut their mouths at him:
For that which had not been told them shall they see;
And that which they had not heard shall they consider.



Another example can be found in Noah, whom the Bible calls a preacher of righteousness. Yet we read that Christ was the one doing the preaching while the ark was preparing.

1 Peter 3:18–20 (KJV 1900)
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he (Christ) went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In other words, everything the true children of God do is done through Christ. He gets the credit, he gets the glory because outside of Christ, our works of righteousness are as filthy rags.
No. Genuine believers are equal to Jesus. He Himself indicates this many times. He calls His disciples the light of the world but calls Himself the light of the world thereby making His followers equal to Him. Again in another area He says the scribe when he has finished his studies becomes equal to his teacher. He also stated that the son does the judging but then turns around and says those who have followed him shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel again showing His genuine disciples are the son.

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Re: The good seed

Post #4

Post by Miles »

Bobcat wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:43 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:58 pm
In other words, everything the true children of God do is done through Christ. He gets the credit, he gets the glory because outside of Christ, our works of righteousness are as filthy rags.
No. Genuine believers are equal to Jesus. He Himself indicates this many times. He calls His disciples the light of the world but calls Himself the light of the world thereby making His followers equal to Him. Again in another area He says the scribe when he has finished his studies becomes equal to his teacher. He also stated that the son does the judging but then turns around and says those who have followed him shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel again showing His genuine disciples are the son.
Now this is a new one. Can we assume you're a genuine believer and judge yourself to be equal to Jesus? I mean, you can now walk on water, heal lepers, and even raise people from the dead. Or are these still out of reach because you are, in fact, not a genuine believer?

.

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Re: The good seed

Post #5

Post by 2timothy316 »

Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)

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Re: The good seed

Post #6

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 am
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)
The "good seeds"/wheat of Matthew 13:37 refer to as the product of the "good seed", which is the message of the son of man, which is one of righteousness and justice (Isaiah 28:16-18) versus the tare seed, which is one of "wickedness" (Matthew 13:49-50), which results in the "wicked"/"tares" to be the "first" to be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:30 & 49-50), which is the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21). As related in Matthew 13:41, the "wicked" are "those who commit lawlessness", which are those who follow the false gospel of grace/cross, the message of the false prophet Paul, taken from the "serpent" (devil) of Genesis 3:4, which is the "tare seed", one of the Law being nailed to a cross, and therefore ignored, and still escaping death and disease, the consequences of sin (transgression of the law). The "good seed" and the "tare seed" are planted in the same "field"/book/NT, "among" each other. (Matthew 13:25)

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Re: The good seed

Post #7

Post by Bobcat »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 am
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)
You are only looking at the one parable. Jesus sends His followers as He was sent. This shows they too sow the good seed and become son of man. Jesus is also the son of the kingdom of God. Christianity has failed in following the son of man because they do not keep His commandments.

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Re: The good seed

Post #8

Post by 2timothy316 »

Bobcat wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 am
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)
You are only looking at the one parable. Jesus sends His followers as He was sent. This shows they too sow the good seed and become son of man. Jesus is also the son of the kingdom of God. Christianity has failed in following the son of man because they do not keep His commandments.
Sowing seed doesn't make a person the Son of Man. To think that because a human can speak and God can speak too doesn't make God a human or a human God Almighty. This is a logical fallacy to think just because two persons can do the same thing it makes them equal. It doesn't. In the scripture the Son of God is clearly singular and the sons of the kingdom are clearly plural. And yes Jesus can be one of sons of the Kingdom but that doesn't mean that many can be the Son of God.

While the evidence is clear that many that call themselves Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, one can't say all who call themselves Christians are not following Christ. This is what is called a generalization fallacy. Judging all based on the acts of some or even a majority doesn't make that judgment true.

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Re: The good seed

Post #9

Post by Bobcat »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:40 pm
Bobcat wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 am
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)
You are only looking at the one parable. Jesus sends His followers as He was sent. This shows they too sow the good seed and become son of man. Jesus is also the son of the kingdom of God. Christianity has failed in following the son of man because they do not keep His commandments.
Sowing seed doesn't make a person the Son of Man. To think that because a human can speak and God can speak too doesn't make God a human or a human God Almighty. This is a logical fallacy to think just because two persons can do the same thing it makes them equal. It doesn't. In the scripture the Son of God is clearly singular and the sons of the kingdom are clearly plural. And yes Jesus can be one of sons of the Kingdom but that doesn't mean that many can be the Son of God.

While the evidence is clear that many that call themselves Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, one can't say all who call themselves Christians are not following Christ. This is what is called a generalization fallacy. Judging all based on the acts of some or even a majority doesn't make that judgment true.
In John 17 Jesus clearly states His genuine followers are One with Him and the Father and He also has stated that His brothers and sisters do the will of God just as He did. So just because Christianity wants to keep Jesus on a pedestal that doesn’t mean it is correct. Jesus clearly says He is not alone.

“My Mother Brothers and Sisters do the will of my Heavenly Father.”

“I have given them the glory you gave me so that they may be One as we are One, I living in them, you living in me so that they may be completed in perfection as One.”

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Re: The good seed

Post #10

Post by 2timothy316 »

Bobcat wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:21 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:40 pm
Bobcat wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 am
Bobcat wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:30 pm In the book of Matthew Jesus states that the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. So In sending His followers as He was sent Jesus is saying His followers are the son of man because they are to do just as He did.

Matthew 13:37
37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man;

Where else does Jesus indicate He is not alone as the son of man?
In this verse Jesus is the Son of Man it doesn't refer to other people as being the Son as Man as well. How do we know? It's by reading further in the text. Jesus was explaining the illustration of the weeds in the field.

"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."

The fine seed are the sons of the Kingdom not the Son of Man. There are 2 persons and 2 groups referred to in these verses.
1. The Son of Man-The sower-Jesus.
2. The fine seed-sons of the kingdom-Christians
3. Weeds-sons of the wicked one-wicked mankind
4. The wicked one-Satan

Note sons of the kingdom is plural. The Son of Man is not the Sons of Man.

Now, does this mean that one can't become Jesus' equal? No. These though are not called Son of Man but adopted as Sons of God and Brothers to Christ.(Ga 4:1-7) But that opens a whole new can of worms and a much deeper discussion that is for those that can eat solid spiritual food. First for one to eat solid spiritual food one must understand what a human is and accepting that a human born in sin never has been and can never be equal to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. (Gen 3:19) Also one must understand not everyone will be adopted as Sons of God and become Jesus' equal, but will still have the reward of eternal life as a human.(Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:1)
You are only looking at the one parable. Jesus sends His followers as He was sent. This shows they too sow the good seed and become son of man. Jesus is also the son of the kingdom of God. Christianity has failed in following the son of man because they do not keep His commandments.
Sowing seed doesn't make a person the Son of Man. To think that because a human can speak and God can speak too doesn't make God a human or a human God Almighty. This is a logical fallacy to think just because two persons can do the same thing it makes them equal. It doesn't. In the scripture the Son of God is clearly singular and the sons of the kingdom are clearly plural. And yes Jesus can be one of sons of the Kingdom but that doesn't mean that many can be the Son of God.

While the evidence is clear that many that call themselves Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, one can't say all who call themselves Christians are not following Christ. This is what is called a generalization fallacy. Judging all based on the acts of some or even a majority doesn't make that judgment true.
In John 17 Jesus clearly states His genuine followers are One with Him and the Father and He also has stated that His brothers and sisters do the will of God just as He did. So just because Christianity wants to keep Jesus on a pedestal that doesn’t mean it is correct. Jesus clearly says He is not alone.

“My Mother Brothers and Sisters do the will of my Heavenly Father.”

“I have given them the glory you gave me so that they may be One as we are One, I living in them, you living in me so that they may be completed in perfection as One.”
The scriptures say that those that follow Christ follow are as one or in unison. Nowhere do the scriptures say being one with Christ doesn't make a person the Son of Man. Brothers and sisters sure. Jesus is the only one that receives the title Son of Man in the Greek Scriptures. John isn't called that, Matthew isn't either. None of the apostles are called the Son of Man.

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