A suggestion for rule number 5

[Swami]

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.

It is my understanding that insight does not need to be supported. A conflict is caused when skeptics expect members to support their insight. This is why I suggest that it rule 5 be amended. Instead of saying "all unsupported claims", simply say that all "arguments" must be supported.

I have started several discussions and many times it is taken over by skeptics. My very first discussion in the science section has over 20,000 views. Only a handful of skeptics posted there but yet there were thousands more who were reading my views. Had these skeptics not taken over the discussion then many would be willing to contribute to the discussion.

Thank you for your consideration.

[otseng]

The intention of this forum is not to simply present "insights", but to debate the truthfulness of claims. Providing insights is simply offering personal opinions, not debating. If you only want to present insights, post in General Chat or Random Ramblings, but not in a debate subforum.

[Swami]

[Replying to otseng in post #2]

I admit that I am not into debate because it is not the way I communicate. I prefer to get people to experience things for themselves and show them through examples and lessons. Perhaps this also a way of debating since it is my way of getting to the truth. I imagine this is how Jesus handled challenges from the Pharisees.

It is my experience here that a lot of debate challenges amount to the skeptics trying impede thought. I often deal with topics that scientists have not provided answers for. Oftentimes, challenges to my views are not made because someone disagrees but rather it is that some skeptics do not want my views to come out. It is dismissed as "woo" eventhough Western scientists have no answers of their own.

I do not want to come off as arrogant by giving the impression that my insights should automatically be embraced as truth. In matters of scientific uncertainty, I have confidence that my views will point to the right path. One should not expect for insights to be proven but rather that following them will lead to clues to get to proven results.

[Purple Knight]

I don't see a problem with it as long as you don't claim your insight actually is evidence.

It is evidence, but it's like a revelation. It's personal. Maybe people will look closely at what you say, introspect, have a similar revelation, and agree. I'm one of those people who looks for that, and because of that, I want insights shared because I will give them their best chance, look at them from every angle I can, and maybe see something new.

But maybe some people will look and they won't have the same revelation. Perhaps they will even have an opposite revelation. And then, that's their truth. That's their insight. And now we're at an impasse because we have opposite realities.

Evidence is the way we communicate about reality in a way that (in my opinion) best mirrors the way reality is actually shared. Kind of has to be hands on though, I think. In other words, if we're having some argument about a crow, we won't really solve it unless we're out in the field both looking at the same crow.

[Tcg]

[Replying to otseng in post #2]

I admit that I am not into debate because it is not the way I communicate.

One has to wonder then why you are posting on a site titled, "Debating Christianity and Religion."

Did you not notice the first word in this title?


Tcg

[Swami]

Bullying should not be allowed. I feel very very bullied and nothing has been done yet to address this problem.

I recommend that otseng tell the skeptics to take it easy for two reasons:
1. Too many skeptics on this site and it is overwhelming
2. Constant challenging does not lead to good dialogue

[otseng]

Bullying should not be allowed. I feel very very bullied and nothing has been done yet to address this problem.

I recommend that otseng tell the skeptics to take it easy for two reasons:
1. Too many skeptics on this site and it is overwhelming
2. Constant challenging does not lead to good dialogue

Depends on what you mean by "bullying".

Also, I'm not going to tell any skeptics to take it easy for two reasons:
1. I'd rather debate skeptics than believers.
2. Constant challenging is a good test for validating the truthfulness of claims.

If you do not feel this site fits your standards, the reasonable thing to do is to find another site that does fit your standards, rather than request changing what has been working here for the past 18 years.

[Tcg]

I feel very very bullied and nothing has been done yet to address this problem.

Your feelings are irrelevant. Expecting one to present evidence in a debate subforum is not bullying. It is expected. If you are incapable of presenting verifiable evidence, why do you post in the debate subforums?


Tcg

[Swami]

Your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not the way to treat a victim.

I expect better from a moderator.

Expecting one to present evidence in a debate subforum is not bullying. It is expected. If you are incapable of presenting verifiable evidence, why do you post in the debate subforums?

I go where the action is. I participate in discussions when I have insight to offer.

Depends on what you mean by "bullying".

Also, I'm not going to tell any skeptics to take it easy for two reasons:
1. I'd rather debate skeptics than believers.
2. Constant challenging is a good test for validating the truthfulness of claims.

If you do not feel this site fits your standards, the reasonable thing to do is to find another site that does fit your standards, rather than request changing what has been working here for the past 18 years.

I am already a member of different forums. What I consider bullying is the swarm of skeptics and their constant questioning and how that limits discussion. Instead of questioning, I feel this forum needs more intuition, more creativity, more deep insight. The skeptics may pride themselves on constant questioning, but I find it counterproductive when members can not get their point across, even if it is a point involving insight rather than an argument.

Besides that otseng, I enjoy your site, the topics, and the civility.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to Swami in post #9]

I get where you're coming from. One thing you can do is make it clear that you are offering a belief. When you don't make it clear that you're offering a belief, then some may take that to mean that you're making a claim or trying to pass it off as truth. You can also use the ignore feature if you feel that one or a few members are after you