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Replying to otseng in post #4066]
I've never heard of any Christian hold the position reality is just a simulation inside the mind of God.
What about any Jew?
What about Jews? Are you suggesting there are Jews that believe this?
I avoid referring to such things as “just a simulation” (as you chose to word it) et al .
Certainly there are Jews that understand this. Here is one such example.
Why do you think Jesus is said to have said that the kingdom of God is within? If Jesus thought God existed outside the universe, why tell us to go within?
What does this have to do with either the universe is real or simulated?
It has to do with where to seek and find the creator of every reality experience.
How can you claim it's a "misconception" if you're not even claiming nor supporting we are in God's mind as a simulation?
My task is to offer the alternative in regard to what it is folk are claiming. In this case, you are claiming that we are not part of a simulation because simulations are not "real" and I give reason as to why we can think of being within the creator mind as both simulation and real, because in that regard these are not exclusive to each other and to think that they must have to be, is a misconception.
Scientists also believe that we do not exist in the mind of the creator based, not upon the evidence but rather upon the perception.
So, do you claim though we perceive the universe is real, it actually is not?
The universe is one of the "mansions" within The Father's House.
(John 14:2 KJV) While they exist they can (obviously) be experienced as real. They can also be changed (remodeled) or simply erased (as is supported by the bible verses given)
The perception (leading to misconception) is that the universe is outside of the creator mind and that this somehow makes the universe "real" whereas if it were inside the creator mind is somehow "cannot be real", is the misconception.
The perception - while understandable - shouldn't automatically be assumed as true.
Until evidence is presented to the contrary, it is reasonable to hold that it is real.
Conflating "real" and "true" is part of the misconception. The evidence is being given anyway. If one is determined to interpret the stories in scripture as literally true, one can search the scripture and never connect with the creator mind in any deep and meaningful manner.
(John 5:39-44 KJV)
Misconceptions can be experienced as real and not be true.
What study have you (as a Christian) done that your sureness about your current perception is the truth? What evidence do you have that you can claim with confidence that "we are not part of a simulation" (that we are not part of the goings on in the creator's mind)?
The first reason is because we perceive it to be real and we all act as if it was real.
What within it shows us how to act in accordance with what it is we experience within it?
Atheists also perceive the universe to be real and act as if it was real.
And I turn the question around, what study have you done and what evidence do you have that we are inside God's mind?
I have done (and will continue to do) plenty of study. I see (also - by your turnaround) that you have not studied such (as a Christian) because the Christianities specifically teach that the creator mind is outside this universe.
Any sureness about such a perception is without/has no foundation in the truth.
Why should anyone accept your extreme minority position?
None have to do any such thing. One can continue to dwell with the mundane popular position and watch the world around them respond according, as a result of that.
What evidence is there that the stories have to be taken literally rather than as analogies to do with the goings on in human minds - minds which do not understand they exist within the mind of the creator?
Because it matches with our perception of the world.
In what way does one's "perception of the world" "match" with one's idea they do not exist within the creator mind? What evidence attributed to Jesus supports such an assertion that ones perception we exist outside of the creator mind, is the truth?
What does the mundane popular position offer which sets (those involved with it) free from the misconceptions they prefer to engage with?
(John 8:32 KJV)
Including phenomena such as NDEs, visions, miracles, answered prayers, transfigurations, et al.
There is no need to invoke a simulation to explain these.
These can also happen in a real world.
What makes you think that if all things are happening in the creators mind, that they must somehow be regarded as "false" (as opposed to "real")?
My point is NDEs, visions, etc have no bearing on either if the universe is real or simulated.
My point (and question) remains.
If such "have no bearing" and one cannot truthfully claim that anything within the creator mind is "false" then one can place any argument which claims so, in the rubbish.
Whatever world/place of dwelling one experiences within the creator mind, is real as long as it is being experienced by any minds doing so, and need never be thought of as "false" - even if said world/place of dwelling is only temporary/can change or be deleted.
If one understands that one exists within the creator mind, one is free to chose to perceive the experience without misconception and one will find the better ways to connect the dots one is required to connect within that perception and be carried into the freedom promised by Jesus (re what happens to those who understand (follow) his words).
Or one can continue to think the creator mind is separate from ones' experience and reap the wages of that thinking accordingly.
The choice is clear. Continue to follow the mundane popular as one's misperceived "truth" or consider the wisdom of following the "extreme minority position" (as you worded that) and be freed.
Re that, it is not hard to "imagine" one is within the creator mind and given enough time and space one will be shown by said creator that such is not merely the product of ones imagination, but real indeed.
The question is, are you willing to give that concept time and space within your reality experience, that it can and thus will show you (provide you evidence/confirm itself true to you) that all doubt is erased and understanding is complete?
Or said another way;
Matthew 6:25 - 6:34 KJV
Exploring Existence within the Creator's Mind