Why would god want people to believe a lie?

[bernee51]

Why would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people to believe falsehoods so that he can condemn them?

See: 2 Thessalonians 2: 11-12

[McCulloch]

For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

I learned long a ago that one good place to find answers to biblical paradoxes is context. You ask why would God want people to believe a lie and then cite a passage that begins with the words, "For this reason..." There just might be a clue there.
So let's look at the lead up to that quote.

[...] Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

The usual apocalyptic stuff about the Lord coming and slaying some master villian with unusual supernatural powers. Apparently, God's delusion is only for those who do not love the truth. So, while the question is not answered, it has been somewhat qualified.
Why would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people who do not love the truth to believe falsehoods so that he can further condemn them?

[FiredUp4jesus]

Why would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people to believe falsehoods so that he can condemn them?

See: 2 Thessalonians 2: 11-12

I think it's pretty hard to give a good answer to a bad question. The problem is with the question itself. A loving, omnipotent, benevolent God would not CAUSE people to believe falsehoods. Therefore He is either not loving or He does not CAUSE them to believe falsehoods. It's pretty clear that you would rather believe that he doesn't exist than take responsibility for your believing falsehoods.

[McCulloch]

I think it's pretty hard to give a good answer to a bad question. The problem is with the question itself. A loving, omnipotent, benevolent God would not CAUSE people to believe falsehoods.

No, the question is not bad. The passage cited explicitly says, "God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false". Here are the options:

1. A loving omnipotent benevolent God would cause people to believe falsehoods. Defending this option would require some kind of supporting reasoning to explain how omnipotence and benevolence is compatable with deliberate deception.
2. A loving omnipotent benevolent God would not cause people to believe falsehoods.
   1. The Christian God is not omnipotent and benevolent OR
   2. The passage cited is false.

Therefore He is either not loving or He does not CAUSE them to believe falsehoods. It's pretty clear that you would rather believe that he doesn't exist than take responsibility for your believing falsehoods.

This is the logical conclusion from the teachings of the Christian bible. If God is omnipotent and decides to deliberately deceive me, for whatever reason, he will be successful or else he is not omnipotent.
Here is the problem. If I do not "love the truth", the Christian bible says that God might send me a deluding influence. Why? Is it that God does not want me to come to the knowledge of truth? Does he need an excuse to condemn me? On the surface, it seems that this God is not benevolent. But maybe I cannot see the truth, after all, the omnipotent creator of the universe may be the one causing me to be deceived, according to the Christians.

[FiredUp4jesus]

I think it's pretty hard to give a good answer to a bad question. The problem is with the question itself. A loving, omnipotent, benevolent God would not CAUSE people to believe falsehoods.

No, the question is not bad. The passage cited explicitly says, "God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false". Here are the options:

1. A loving omnipotent benevolent God would cause people to believe falsehoods. Defending this option would require some kind of supporting reasoning to explain how omnipotence and benevolence is compatable with deliberate deception.
2. A loving omnipotent benevolent God would not cause people to believe falsehoods.
   1. The Christian God is not omnipotent and benevolent OR
   2. The passage cited is false.

Therefore He is either not loving or He does not CAUSE them to believe falsehoods. It's pretty clear that you would rather believe that he doesn't exist than take responsibility for your believing falsehoods.

This is the logical conclusion from the teachings of the Christian bible. If God is omnipotent and decides to deliberately deceive me, for whatever reason, he will be successful or else he is not omnipotent.
Here is the problem. If I do not "love the truth", the Christian bible says that God might send me a deluding influence. Why? Is it that God does not want me to come to the knowledge of truth? Does he need an excuse to condemn me? On the surface, it seems that this God is not benevolent. But maybe I cannot see the truth, after all, the omnipotent creator of the universe may be the one causing me to be deceived, according to the Christians.

Here is the problem with your argument, you claim that God is the cause for the unbelief. That is NOT what the passage says. It says He sent a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. It does not say that God deceived them. Most Christians will tell you that all deception comes from the father of lies, Satan. So, it all comes down to you choosing who you want to believe, Satan (lies) or God (truth). God wants you to choose Him, but He will never cause anyone to choose to believe the lie. By the way, you are using a fallacious argument in regards to His omniscience. You are basically stating that God is creating a rock that is too big for Him to pick up. Here is what I am saying, God is truth and God is all powerful. Therefore even though God is capable of creating anything he is unable to contradict His nature. He cannot be deceptive because he IS truth. He cannot be unloving because he IS love. When you read scripture you have to keep in mind all the aspects of God that He has revealed to us. If you just take it one passage at a time and ignore these character traits of God you are bound to be confused. So, with a proper understanding of God's nature and character we can see that the question is a contradiction in itself. I suggest we simply remove the "why" from the question. The "why" assumes that the rest of the statement is true when in fact it is not. So, would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people to believe falsehoods so that he can condemn them? Certainly not.

[McCulloch]

Here is the problem with your argument, you claim that God is the cause for the unbelief.

No, I do not. I claim that the Christian bible states that God in some cases may deliberately deceive those who already do not love the truth. Re-read the passage. That is what it says.

It says He sent a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. It does not say that God deceived them.

What is the source of this deluding influence? The passage attributes it to God. Why is God sending the deluding influence? The passage says so that they will believe what is false. Putting two and two together. God deceived them.

By the way, you are using a fallacious argument in regards to His omniscience. ...

I don't think that I am. If we allow for the moment, that God could deceive, then, being omnipotent, he would be rather good at it. So the question remains does God, according to Christian theology deceive?

You say without evidence that God cannot deceive because "God is Truth". Is that like saying that God cannot hate because "God is Love" (1 John 4:7,8,16)?

Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left. The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'How?' He said, 'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, for the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you."

I see no reason to think that the Creator of the universe, who made the animals who continually use deception to survive, should not use deception himself if it suits his purpose.

[bernee51]

Here is the problem with your argument, you claim that God is the cause for the unbelief. That is NOT what the passage says. It says He sent a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false.

The passage says: God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

It is like me asking a policeman for a tylenol, him giving me ecstacy then busting me for drug possession.

Most Christians will tell you that all deception comes from the father of lies, Satan. So, it all comes down to you choosing who you want to believe, Satan (lies) or God (truth).

And 'most christians' will interpret the bible in a light that suits their beliefs.

God wants you to choose Him, but He will never cause anyone to choose to believe the lie.

That is NOT what the quoted passage states.

He cannot be deceptive because he IS truth.

Ths bible is the 'word of god'. The bible states: God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

If you just take it one passage at a time and ignore these character traits of God you are bound to be confused.

You can cite a hundred references to show that the biblical God is a bloodthirsty tyrant, but if they can dig up two or three verses that say God is love, they will claim that you are taking things out of context!
~ Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith

[micatala]

This is admittedly a very difficult question for me as a Christian.

McCulloch has presented the following options:

1.A loving omnipotent benevolent God would cause people to believe falsehoods. Defending this option would require some kind of supporting reasoning to explain how omnipotence and benevolence is compatable with deliberate deception.

2.A loving omnipotent benevolent God would not cause people to believe falsehoods.
a. The Christian God is not omnipotent and benevolent OR
b. The passage cited is false.

I would add an option 1a.

Our understanding of omnipotence or benevolence is different than that of God's or at least different than that expressed by Paul.

McCulloch has also attempted to provide a larger context for the original quotation. Here again is the full passage.

7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

If I put on the apologist's hat, I might point out that one could interpret this passage to apply only to those who buy into the counterfeit miracles, etc., of the 'lawless one', typically interpreted to mean the anti-Christ whose coming presages the rapture and tribulation. Under this interpretation, those receiving the 'delusion' would be localised in time, and do not comprise all those who have 'rejected the truth.' It is true that Paul probably felt he would see the second coming and felt that this deluding influence was in action even as he wrote. If one does not accept that the second coming happened at that time, then the event described here has not occurred yet (or some would say is occuring now as I write).

Now, reducing the number of people who experience this deluding influence may limit its scope, but many would not be too comforted by this, as it still implies God has engaged in deception.

Now, these people are described as 'already perishing' but one might say there would still be hope for them if they would turn from their rejection of truth. Whether or not this is the case we really do not know. It might be that all of these would have 'perished' anyway, and the deluding influence merely functions to see that these people continue to behave in ways that others will perceive as consistent with their condemnation. Perhaps the picture is God 'making an example' of some who are condemned anyway in order to motivate those who are not to maintain the faith.


As far as choosing between the options, I will first say that I do not buy into the assumption that a loving and omnipotent God would never perform actions that we might perceive as evil, or at least as inconsistent with loving and omnipotent. The very fact that we perceive there to be evil in the world leads to the question why God would create or even allow such evil in his creation.

I cannot deny that there is what I would call evil. I cannot answer why God would allow His world to include evil, I only accept that it does. Does this make God less than perfectly loving or not totally omnipotent? Probably yes, at least in the simplest interpretations we give to those words.

The particular question regarding God deceiving people in order for them to become condemned is a particular example of evil, and one that Paul is directly ascribing to God (I agree, there is no other way to read the passage). I am not sure what Paul would say, other than these people had already engaged in actions or beliefs that justified condemnation.


Now, if you have read this post this far, you might be wondering when the heck I am going to stop hemming and hawing and just stick myself on one of the multiple horns of the dilemma.


You will have to wait.

At this point, I choose to postpone my decision.

[bernee51]

This is admittedly a very difficult question for me as a Christian.

McCulloch has presented the following options:

1.A loving omnipotent benevolent God would cause people to believe falsehoods. Defending this option would require some kind of supporting reasoning to explain how omnipotence and benevolence is compatable with deliberate deception.

2.A loving omnipotent benevolent God would not cause people to believe falsehoods.
a. The Christian God is not omnipotent and benevolent OR
b. The passage cited is false.

I would add an option 1a.

Or 1b:

God may be omniscient/potent/benevolent but is not self-reflective and is not consciously aware of his actions.

Jung wrote extensively on this in his "Answer to Job"

[FiredUp4jesus]

Here is the problem with your argument, you claim that God is the cause for the unbelief.

No, I do not. I claim that the Christian bible states that God in some cases may deliberately deceive those who already do not love the truth. Re-read the passage. That is what it says.

I must disagree with your interpretation. God allows people to be deceived. But He is not the source of the deception. It may be quibbling in your eyes, but it is an important distinction to me. He allows evil spirits to deceive us, tempt us, but for those who are called to serve He works it for the good.

It says He sent a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. It does not say that God deceived them.

What is the source of this deluding influence? The passage attributes it to God.

Again I have to disagree. The passage does not point to God as the source of the deluding spirit

Why is God sending the deluding influence? The passage says so that they will believe what is false. Putting two and two together. God deceived them.

I follow your logic but allowing someone to be deceived is not the same as causing them to be deceived.

By the way, you are using a fallacious argument in regards to His omniscience. ...

I don't think that I am. If we allow for the moment, that God could deceive, then, being omnipotent, he would be rather good at it. So the question remains does God, according to Christian theology deceive?

You say without evidence that God cannot deceive because "God is Truth". Is that like saying that God cannot hate because "God is Love" (1 John 4:7,8,16)?

Yes. 1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. This is an obvious reference to the Holy Spirit, who is God. Therefore God is Truth.

Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left. The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'How?' He said, 'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, for the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you."

I see no reason to think that the Creator of the universe, who made the animals who continually use deception to survive, should not use deception himself if it suits his purpose.

While I applaud your research (you picked a good passage), I disagree with you conclusions for the reasons I have stated above. I will concede that God allows people to be deceived. We see the evidence of that everyday. However, He is not the agent of deception. He is incapable of that. Now, in an effort to stay on topic, the question is did God want to deceive them in this situation. At first glance it might seem so. However, if we look at the context of the story and the nature of God we come to a different conclusion. God would have preferred that Ahab listen to His prophet, but Aha didn't like what he had to say so he surrounded himself with yes-men who only told him what he wanted to hear. Therefore, the Lord allowed him to continue down that path. Ahab rejected God, and his decision to do so cost him dearly.