Marijuana Use: is it un-Christian

[Matthew7vrs7]

I am probably going to get hammered by both sides on this issue because I am a born again Christian - but I am just as tired of the doctrine of marijuana paranoia as I am of "you need Jesus to be happy" theology.

I will state this simple fact: Romans 14 makes all things lawful for a Christian as long as it doesn't make his brother stumble be it wine, meat, bread, etc. (of course limited to those things not covered by the law of scripture).
It is society that has stigmatized marijuana use, period.

Should it be used recreational - I don't believe so. A pothead is no different than a drunkard. I have personal experience in this.

Should it be used medicinally - I do believe so. All things of this earth were given to us by God (Genesis 1:29 ...given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed...)

It is mindlessly repeated and shoved down our throats that pot is bad and it is even preached from the pulpit - there is no foundation for this socially promoted theology and it needs to stop.

If you believe that no drug, including caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, aspirin, penicillin, cold meds, cough drops, epidurals, antisthetic, etc, etc, etc, etc and the list could go for ever... then I respect your belief that drugs shouldn't be used.

But if you have used or currently use any medication, any! how can you be against a plant that is a miracle in itself.

In ancient and recent history man has made paper, clothing, inks and dyes, glues, fuels, kindling, rope and medication that ranges from help with menstrual pain, headaches, glaucoma, motion sickness, athsma, anorexia / bulimia and many other aches and pains; and in the end a food staple that is edible from the roots to the seeds - all from hemp - so once again we see it comes down to intent and frequency.

Well there you go - show me where I'm wrong.

P.S. I was a former abuser, am not a current user, but I know the medicinal properties and if it became a neccessity to endure an ailment, I would have no problem harmonizing my Christian faith with using marijuana.

(please ignore spelling mistakes - I do)

[Vladd44]

A pothead is no different than a drunkard.

How so? I would dare to say you would have a long road to climb to imply that alcohol and THC do the same things to your cognitive abilities or have the same physical detriment.

As far as you being an abuser, plz define abuser of marijuana? Is that someone who doesnt save their roaches?

[Matthew7vrs7]

A pothead is no different than a drunkard.

How so? I would dare to say you would have a long road to climb to imply that alcohol and THC do the same things to your cognitive abilities or have the same physical detriment.

As far as you being an abuser, plz define abuser of marijuana? Is that someone who doesnt save their roaches?

Originally I would have said "abuse" was to run out before I could re-up.
BUT...

It is my personal experience. I spent almost 20 years as an abuser of all things before coming to the Lord. I have smoked as much pot, done as much cocaine, acid, and various and sundry other pills and powders as anyone I know and I would dare to say anyone I haven't known and blessed be my Savior I didn't die or end up in jail somehow - which leads me back to my point. The recreational use of any drug is poor judgement - not because I've scraped whatever powder I could from the inside of a baggy before a "gummy" to make sure I got it all, not because I've spent hours scraping resin from pipes and bong stems and throwing in resinated roach papers and crushing stems and seeds to make a decent "last" bowl or because I could never let my plants grow to complete maturity without picking bud after bud off and microwaving it into little harsh puffs of "happiness", not because I have crawled around on my knees in front of the counter where I cooked up my rock checking every little miniscule piece of popcorn or ash or anything else that was tiny and white hoping to get one last hit, and not because when you take acid on consecutive days you have to quadruple the dosage to get anything out of it, even though I am guilty of all that. The abuse and addiction to anything makes it your master - drugs, porn, food, sex, whatever.

But now I do not "abuse" anything. If I'm sick I take medication; if I'm not I don't. I consider pot to be medication and though I do not use it any more, as I have stated, I wouldn't hesitate if the medical need arose.

I would no longer take tylenol PM to get high, or drink a bottle of formula 44d to trip, but if needed to take the edge off pain or discomfort - I see nothing wrong with them.

As far as your debate over alcohol and pot from above - I have absolutely no argument with that? Alcohol does far more damage to your body as it is by it's very nature a poison - ever heard of someone dying from a pot overdose? It's also a common myth that THC kills brain cells - we actually have pre-existing cannabinoid receptors in our brains...but that doesn't mean that persistent use of it doesn't take time away from my Lord, my wife, my children, and my witness to the unbeliever.

God Bless You

[McCulloch]

Re: Marijuana Use: is it un-Christian
Three issues:

1. Your body is a temple and other such thoughts. Which go to prove that using it (or anything else) in such a way as to harm yourself is not approved of by Christian theology. That puts recreational use of marijuana in the same category as gluttony, drunkenness and sloth. [sarcasm]Medicinal use, of course, is not required since God has promised the faithful to answer prayer and that prayer and anointing with oil is all that is required for health.[/sarcasm]
2. The law of the land. My understanding is that if wearing your hat backwards were to be made illegal, then faithful Christians would comply. Obey earthly authorities unless their ordinances contradict what God requires of you. This is why faithful Christians always conscienciously comply with all highway safety regulations. Fortunately, I live in a country while recreational use is still illegal, medicinal use is allowed. And like many potentially addictive drugs, a doctor's prescription is required.
3. Making a weak brother stumble. Have you met the kill-joy chronic weak brother? He requires that all of the church women's skirts go down to their ankles because he might lust. Nursing mothers must leave his presence, for they might cause him to sin. Use non-alcoholic wine for communion, he might have a problem with drink. He used to play poker, so at church gatherings, playing cards are not allowed.

[Vladd44]

not because I've spent hours scraping resin from pipes and bong stems and throwing in resinated roach papers and crushing stems and seeds to make a decent "last" bowl or because I could never let my plants grow to complete maturity without picking bud after bud off and microwaving it into little harsh puffs of "happiness",

Sounds like you needed some tips on how to grow good bud. Then you wouldnt have had any seeds. pffft

Seriously though, I hope your not going to try to counter scientific evidence and try to say that Marijuana is actually addictive are you?

I am at least happy your not trying to equate the physical issues brought on by alcohol to be equal to that of THC.

[Matthew7vrs7]

No, vladd, it is my contention that addiction is in the person and not the substance regardless of its "feelgood" properties. That's why a 'disciple' has a duty to be disciplined beyond addiction.[edit=added content] and I grew sinsemillia, the seeds I was referring to was commercial swag bought from others[/added content]

And McCulloch:

1. Your body is a temple and other such thoughts. Which go to prove that using it (or anything else) in such a way as to harm yourself is not approved of by Christian theology. That puts recreational use of marijuana in the same category as gluttony, drunkenness and sloth. [sarcasm]Medicinal use, of course, is not required since God has promised the faithful to answer prayer and that prayer and anointing with oil is all that is required for health.[/sarcasm]

I think this makes my point exactly...and to go a step further, you show sarcasm where I have a little indignation - today's feel good theology makes so little since to the average Joe and doesn't rely on "Law to the Proud, Grace to the Humble", that it makes me sick at times...nobody has a Jesus sized hole in their heart.

* The law of the land. My understanding is that if wearing your hat backwards were to be made illegal, then faithful Christians would comply. Obey earthly authorities unless their ordinances contradict what God requires of you. This is why faithful Christians always conscienciously comply with all highway safety regulations. Fortunately, I live in a country while recreational use is still illegal, medicinal use is allowed. And like many potentially addictive drugs, a doctor's prescription is required.

You are preaching to the choir - funny I'm afraid that someday when Christianity is made illegal - and that may not be to far off - many will just go with the flow on that too.

1. Making a weak brother stumble. Have you met the kill-joy chronic weak brother? He requires that all of the church women's skirts go down to their ankles because he might lust. Nursing mothers must leave his presence, for they might cause him to sin. Use non-alcoholic wine for communion, he might have a problem with drink. He used to play poker, so at church gatherings, playing cards are not allowed.

I would argue that Romans 14 simply says if your brother can't drink because he's weak, don't open a beer in his presence so as not to make him stumble - and I don't see anything wrong with not being a stumbling block to my brother "in his presence", but if my wife and I drink a glass of wine (can't stand the stuff - but hypothetically) at dinner and an alcoholic isn't at the table, there is nothing in doctrine that states that's wrong - but if you are the chronically weak brother, you almost should just stay home and let the congregation visit you on your terms for fellowship.

God Bless

[Sleepy]

1. Christians are told to obey the law of the land. Hence reason not to do pot.

2. Your body is a temple, hence you have a responsibility to look after your body, not over eat, exercise, don't smoke etc.

3. Once you know something is bad for you, you shouldn't do it. Reasons not to do pot?

Smoking marijuana is more dangerous than smoking tobacco, the smoke contains 50% to 70% more carcinogens than tobacco smoke from cigarettes (unfiltered).

Short Term side effects: impaired short-term memory, impaired concentration, attention, judgment, impaired coordination and balance, increased heart rate, blood shot or red eyes, dry mouth, increased appetite (the "munchies").

Occasional effects, especially with long term use: anxiety, panic and paranoia.

Long Term: addiction; paranoia, persistent anxiety, impaired learning skills and memory difficulties.

Medical Complications include: increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema, increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs, decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men, increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility.

Get it?

[Matthew7vrs7]

The above statement is almost 100% incorrect.

1. Christians are told to obey the law of the land. Hence reason not to do pot.

In many parts of the world Christianity is illegal, but we do not adhere to that. Most everywhere abortion is legal, but we don't adhere to that. And if you've ever given somebody a Tylenol 3 or some other seemingly innocent prescription to help them out - you've committed a felony, but most everyone has at one time or another without even thinking of it as wrong. Christians are to be more concerned with God's laws and not man's. Like, for instance, someday a Mark will be required to continue living but I think God will give people a pass on that requirement.

2. Your body is a temple, hence you have a responsibility to look after your body, not over eat, exercise, don't smoke etc.

I agree totally, yet I promise you that not one person can claim that they haven't abused their temple at one time or another. Ever not got enough sleep - then you have polluted your temple, or how about any medication at all...any...at all? Then using your logic, the same is true. It is the intent of the heart. Intent to get stoned = bad; intent to cure nausea so than one can feed their temple = good.

3. Once you know something is bad for you, you shouldn't do it. Reasons not to do pot?

Smoking marijuana is more dangerous than smoking tobacco, the smoke contains 50% to 70% more carcinogens than tobacco smoke from cigarettes (unfiltered).

Short Term side effects: impaired short-term memory, impaired concentration, attention, judgment, impaired coordination and balance, increased heart rate, blood shot or red eyes, dry mouth, increased appetite (the "munchies").

Occasional effects, especially with long term use: anxiety, panic and paranoia.

Long Term: addiction; paranoia, persistent anxiety, impaired learning skills and memory difficulties.

Medical Complications include: increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema, increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs, decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men, increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility.

Get it?

Your long term reasons are social myths - addiction is not a disease it is a weakness of the mind; paranoia is brought on by the worry that others will know your high because it's illegal; anxiety??? that's a new one; impaired learning skills - now this one is close but I think laziness and loss of motivation is closer there; I have four kids, 2 occurred with an IUD in place so the testosterone and sperm argument are out (and I smoked for about 20 years) and if THC is eaten that knocks out all of the "burning" issues with carcinogenics leaving you with.......the munchies and a stoned feeling being the only side effects.

I understand that it is not desirable to abuse any medication - which marijuana was centuries before aspirin was discovered - which is really my point in the first place. If you have been regenerated in the resurrection of Christ and are born again - marijuana used as occasional medicine is still in harmony with Christian doctrine. Again Romans 14 - all things are lawful though they may not be good for me (paraphrasing Paul) or more specifically for my witness to others.


P.S. I would also like to point out that all of the anti-pot rhetoric in the ads and commercials are marketed to us in what way? a reverse peer pressure sort of "it ain't cool to do dope" fashion - WHY? - why don't they give the facts you gave to support your side? (because I know all the sites and organizations have the same info) It's because with exception of the smoking part of it - it is all untrue and hasn't changed anyone's opinion in the 20 plus years since the ONDCP has begun it's attack against pot. If it makes you stupid, you can still be president; just look at Clinton who is still holding his smoke and Bush (who I voted for 2X by the by) who smoked his share, and I would bet that since George Washington grew hemp for rope he probably used it medicinally as well. Before prohibition in 1937 you could buy it OTC at the drugstore.

God Bless

[Sleepy]

I'm a medical doctor and I treat the effects of drug addiction, psychiatric dependance and side effects.

Here is some articals from the American Journal of Psychiatry

Memory loss - Marijuana, Memory, and Perception
RHEA L. DORNBUSH PH.D., MAX FINK M.D., and ALFRED M. FREEDMAN M.D.

Addiction - Casual Versus Heavy Use of Marijuana: A Redefinition of the Marijuana Problem
STEVEN M. MIRIN, LEO M. SHAPIRO, ROGER E. MEYER, RICHARD C. PILLARD, and SEYMOUR FISHER

Exacerbation of schizophrenia - Marijuana use in schizophrenia: a clear hazard
DA Treffert

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.

Infertility - Human sperm express cannabinoid receptor CB1 which activation inhibits motility, acrosome reaction and mitochontrial function

M. Rossato, F. Ion Popa, M. Ferigo, G. Clari, C. Foresta

What are your pharmacological qualifications?

Edit: added some papers for your perusal

[Aqualung]

I don't think it's okay to do pot simply because it alters your state of conciousness. The holy spirit speaks in a still small voice which is already hard enough to hear. You shouldn't take something that will make that even harder to hear, especially on purpose.