Birds Created Before Dinosaurs

[StuartJ]

Day Four

And God (the Elohim) said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Day Five

And God (the Elohim) said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so

Day Four - birds and fishes, Day Five - land creatures.

What happened to birds evolving from dinosaurs in this creation myth ...?

I think: "We have the fossils, we win" applies here.

[StuartJ]

This post has been up for a week now ...

... and not one person of faith has stepped up to defend the "Word of God".

I take the silence as an admission that we are dealing with primitive creation mythology.

And if a person of faith has read this topic, and not answered it, can they continue post as a creationist elsewhere and claim that they are honest ...?

[bluethread]

Sorry, I didn't notice the thread. Genesis 1 does not speak of evolution. It presents the creation in cycles of consciousness, in a poetic fashion, first the inanimate, then the animate, as they might first enter ones consciousness.

Inanimate / Animate

Cycle 1 - light and darkness / Cycle 4 - lights in the sky


Cycle 2 - water above and below / Cycle 5 flying things and sea creatures


Cycle 3 - land and plants / Cycle 6 - land animals

Cycle 7
contemplation of all that has entered one's consciousness

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 3 by bluethread]

Genesis 1 does not speak of evolution. It presents the creation in cycles of consciousness, in a poetic fashion, first the inanimate, then the animate, as they might first enter ones consciousness.

You seem to present "the creation" as though it really happened.

Please back this up with whatever you have.

"Enter one's consciousness" sounds very much like entering one's imagination. I think you are on the right track there.

I put it to you that you are dodging admitting we are dealing with primitive creation mythology that entered the imaginations of Jewish priests.

The topic is aimed directly at those in the faith communities who pass this creation mythology off as a factual account of how the universe and everything in it was created by their particular version of "God".

The biblical "fact" that the Canaanite Elohim created the birds before the dinosaurs is wrong.

And hiding behind bloviated language and a smokescreen of philosophy and poetry and psychology and such doesn't change the very real fact that the birds entered the consciousness of the ancient human writers in the wrong cycle of consciousness.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to StuartJ]

What would make you possibly believe that dinosaurs came from birds?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 2 by StuartJ]

The Bible says that everything was created in 6 days. So in the fossil record it would appear like everything just appeared just like the cambrian explosion.

[Guy Threepwood]

[Replying to post 1 by StuartJ]

What happened to birds evolving from dinosaurs in this creation myth ...?

https://www.voanews.com/a/scientists-bi ... 63705.html


I think: "We have the fossils, we win" applies here.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 1 by StuartJ]

What happened to birds evolving from dinosaurs in this creation myth ...?

https://www.voanews.com/a/scientists-bi ... 63705.html


I think: "We have the fossils, we win" applies here.

You misapplied the link ... intentionally, I suggest:

The evidence, Feduccia says, only adds to the idea that birds did not evolve from ground-dwelling dinosaurs, but from tree-climbing ancestors.

Which maintains my point.

I really do have trouble trusting people of faith when it comes to matters of faith.

Now, perhaps you can back up the biblical creation mythology with something other than faith ....

[StuartJ]

[Replying to StuartJ]

What would make you possibly believe that dinosaurs came from birds?

I don't.

You appear to have difficulty comprehending what I've clearly written.

Perhaps a little less time in Sunday school and a lot more time with advanced education would be beneficial.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 3 by bluethread]

Genesis 1 does not speak of evolution. It presents the creation in cycles of consciousness, in a poetic fashion, first the inanimate, then the animate, as they might first enter ones consciousness.

You seem to present "the creation" as though it really happened.

Please back this up with whatever you have.

No, I am presenting it using the terminology of the text. The OP used the same term. Why would we be concerned with "birds created before dinosaurs" if there were no creation. So, I presume that creation is a given, at least as a means of evaluating the text.

"Enter one's consciousness" sounds very much like entering one's imagination. I think you are on the right track there.

Those are your words not mine. Light is considered by most to be an empirical fact. However, to the man who has been blind from birth, it would not really enter his consciousness until he began to see.

I put it to you that you are dodging admitting we are dealing with primitive creation mythology that entered the imaginations of Jewish priests.

No, I am clearly stating that we are dealing with philosophical concepts that have been communicated in oral tradition over thousands of years.

The topic is aimed directly at those in the faith communities who pass this creation mythology off as a factual account of how the universe and everything in it was created by their particular version of "God".

The biblical "fact" that the Canaanite Elohim created the birds before the dinosaurs is wrong.

If by "fact" you mean empirically verified scientific theory, I would say that endeavors to used Genesis 1 to counter that are fruitless, not because evolutionary theory is irrefutable, but because Gen. 1 has nothing to do with it.

And hiding behind bloviated language and a smokescreen of philosophy and poetry and psychology and such doesn't change the very real fact that the birds entered the consciousness of the ancient human writers in the wrong cycle of consciousness.

So, what is your justification for when flying things enter one's consciousness? I would argue that the flying and swimming things are placed where they are in the text to parallel their existence in the seas and the sky with the separation of the waters in the earth from the waters in the sky on cycle 2.