Global Flood

[otseng]

One of the significant parts of the Creation Model (CM) is that a world-wide flood occurred. This flood covered the entire world. Naturally, many questions arise out of this:

How can a world-wide flood feasibly happen?
Where did all the water come from?
Where did all the water go?
What significance does it have on the CM?
What evidence are there of a global flood?

[perfessor]

Otseng wrote:

How can a world-wide flood feasibly happen?
Where did all the water come from?
Where did all the water go?
What significance does it have on the CM?
What evidence are there of a global flood?

These are good questions! Please educate us, because I've never heard any explanation other than "That's what the Bible says."

[otseng]

I'll answer this one first.

What significance does it have on the CM?

A world-wide flood explains the following:
- Extinction of the dinosaurs
- Why the prehistoric world had large animals/plants and now it does not
- The origin of the Grand Canyon and other canyons
- The existence of the mid-Oceanic ridge
- The formation of the continental shelves
- The formation of ocean trenches
- Magnetic variations on the ocean floor
- The formation of submarine canyons
- The formation of coal and oil
- The existence of frozen mammoths
- The formation of major mountain ranges
- The phenomenon of parallel rock stratas
- The apparent jigsaw fit of the continents

By the way, for those who would like to peek ahead, my information will be primarily from Walt Brown.

[perfessor]

It seems that this topic could become unbelievably huge.

Otseng wrote:

A world-wide flood explains the following:

There exist other explanations as well. Is the Flood Model (shall we call it FM?) a better explanation? I would like to add that in many posts by several contributors, we see a type of logic that roughly states "I don't understand the scientific explanation, therefore it must be wrong." I will admit that I don't yet understand the FM explanations, but I need to hear more details.

- The apparent jigsaw fit of the continents
- The existence of the mid-Oceanic ridge
- The formation of the continental shelves
- The formation of ocean trenches
- The formation of major mountain ranges
- The formation of submarine canyons

I believe Plate Tectonic theory also explains these.

- Extinction of the dinosaurs
- Why the prehistoric world had large animals/plants and now it does not
- The formation of coal and oil

The Earth has experienced several mass extinction events. Although the cause(s) is/are open to debate, evidence points to global extreme climate changes as a proximate cause. This could also explain why large animals are not as apparent nowadays - the climate is different, and no longer supports them. The huge die-off of biomass created the basis for today's coal and oil deposits i.e. long chain hydrocarbons created by organic processes.

- The origin of the Grand Canyon and other canyons
- Magnetic variations on the ocean floor
- The phenomenon of parallel rock stratas

In what way is the FM a better explanation than standard geological theory?

- The existence of frozen mammoths

But no frozen dinosaurs! The most recent ice age was some 15,000 years ago. Dinosaurs date back at least 63 million years.

[otseng]

Before I go in and explain the Flood Model (FM), I will warn readers that what I'm about to share will seem quite far-fetched. But it is only because the Evolutionary Model (EM) has been taught to be a fact and that any other theory besides evolution is plain wrong. So, I ask for a little open mindedness. I don't ask you though to suspend your logic or reasoning powers. If something I say is contrary to logic, please point it out. But, if something I say sounds far off simply because it's different than the EM, then I ask you to hold premature judgement.

Let me start by describing the Earth before the Flood. The earth's atmosphere was very different than it is now. The temperature was more uniform throughout the earth and was mostly tropical. The entire world was covered by some sort of water canopy which allowed for a global tropical climate. It also did not rain. The earth had an abundance of large animals (dinosaurs) and large plants. The oceans did not exist as we know them now. However, there were seas that existed. The major mountain ranges did not exist and the mountains were smaller than what we have today. About half the water now in the oceans was once in interconnected chambers about 10 miles below the earth's surface. Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas were a connected land mass.

Here is a cross diagram of the earth before the Flood:


Later, I'll get into what actually happened during the flood.

[mrmufin]

This flood covered the entire world.

That's interesting. As with many things theistic, there doesn't appear to be a unified agreement among believers as to whether or not "The Flood" was literal, local, metaphorical or allegorical.

How can a world-wide flood feasibly happen?
Where did all the water come from?
Where did all the water go?
What significance does it have on the CM?
What evidence are there of a global flood?

I'd like to throw in a few more questions related to this topic, if I may.

What rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire Earth in forty days and forty nights, or 960 hours? Please show the math.

How many scientists who are not Christian, if any, suggest that the Earth experienced a global flood at some point in the past 6,000 years?

What did the carnivorous species aboard Noah's ark eat?

By the way, for those who would like to peek ahead, my information will be primarily from Walt Brown.

And Walt brown's "Hydroplate Theory" has been published in which peer-reviewed scientific journals?

Regards,
mrmufin

[ST88]

The entire world was covered by some sort of water canopy which allowed for a global tropical climate. It also did not rain.

By "some sort of water canopy", I assume that you mean a vast layer of water vapor that encircled the earth like a heavy fog. Or, alternatively, was sort of a morning dew style fog near the surface and somewhat thicker above, like an overcast sky. This would account for the wet climate without rain, but not a worldwide tropical zone.

Is the water canopy perpetually arranged in some way to alter surface albedo around the poles (or in the current equitorial zone, warmer or cooler as need be to account for latitude difference), or is there some other way the earth was arranged (spinning & rolling) at the time to maintain this type of climate? Or is the argument similar to the modern idea of a greenhouse effect, with its layer of vapor acting as a uniform insulator around the entire world?

[fried beef sandwich]

otseng, this is going to be a huge topic to be contained in one thread. I have a few counterexamples to interject already...

Would you prefer me to wait for you to lay out your entire case first before responding or would you rather prefer me to answer as you go along?

[otseng]

It seems that this topic could become unbelievably huge.

I agree. So, to limit this thread, this thread should not contain how evolutionary theories can explain things. Separate threads should be created to dive into those areas.

That's interesting. As with many things theistic, there doesn't appear to be a unified agreement among believers as to whether or not "The Flood" was literal, local, metaphorical or allegorical.

In this thread, we will be discussing it as a literal event. As to metaphorical or allegorical interpretations, that should be in separate threads.

What rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire Earth in forty days and forty nights, or 960 hours? Please show the math.

I agree. Simply raining from the sky is not sufficient to cover the entire Earth with a flood.

And Walt brown's "Hydroplate Theory" has been published in which peer-reviewed scientific journals?

I don't know. And actually, it's immaterial to the debate. This thread is not to debate on Dr Brown's ability to publish his findings in scientific journals. For debate sake, let's just assume that I was the one who came up with the Hydroplate Theory. Then we can then debate this on evidence alone.

otseng, this is going to be a huge topic to be contained in one thread. I have a few counterexamples to interject already...

Would you prefer me to wait for you to lay out your entire case first before responding or would you rather prefer me to answer as you go along?

How about let's just focus on the pre-flood environment for now? We can debate this area first. Then we can get into what the FM says about what happened during the flood. So, if your counterexamples relate to the pre-flood environment, you can bring it up now.

[otseng]

Or is the argument similar to the modern idea of a greenhouse effect, with its layer of vapor acting as a uniform insulator around the entire world?

As to the actual composition of the water canopy, I don't know. And nobody can really say for sure. But, my guess is what you described above. Perhaps it's a water vapor layer that produced that the greenhouse effect on the earth.

So, one question is, why is a water canopy necessary in the FM? It would help explain why animals and plants grew to be so large in the past. It would also explain the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Obviously the environment and climate was different during the time of the dinosaurs. But, why did things grow to be so large? What can explain it?

The greenhouse effect would produce a more tropical environment on the earth. This in turn would cause plants to grow faster. There wasn't the seasons back then as we know now. It certainly didn't have seasons of dryness. This is evidenced in trees found in the Carboniferous period. Trees in this period are characterized by having no growth rings. This implies that there was no changing periods of wetness, dryness. And based on the size of the plants, it can only mean it was wet all the time. Now, how can a climate be wet all the time? A greenhouse scenario is the best guess.

A water vapor layer would also act as a shield to harmful radiation from the sun. And thus lowering the effect of harmful mutations from ultraviolet light.

The water canopy layer also could have increased the atmospheric pressure. And thus allowed for things to grow bigger.

So, one major cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs was a dramatic climate change during the flood.