Does Jesus belong solely to Christianity?

[Bro Dave]

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian, but his mission was not religion specific.
Jesus’ mission was to reveal God to us in all ways we are capable of understanding Him. That comes down to seeing God as our Father, although He is INFINITELY more, and that makes us all brothers and sisters. This was the Gospel message Jesus came to share.

So, by what right do Christian lay exclusive claim to Jesus? Jesus certainly did not create, nor direct anyone to create a religion in his name. Always did Jesus preach that the Kingdom of God was not an Earthly kingdom, but was there within the hearts of men… ALL men, not just some limited few. Jesus left his Spirit of Truth for all humankind, and that Spirit will guide all to God, no matter by what name they may call Him.

Bro Dave

[Colter]

Hi Dave,

I think the confusion is the result of Jesus' own words which were true spiritually and will one day be commonly understood in the future. When he said "I am the way the truth and the life" he was correct. When he said "no one gets to the father except through me" he was correct. When he said "all power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" he was correct. But what Christians as well as all other religions have a difficult time with is the realization that Jesus was essentially God incarnate in the flesh, that his words were "generic" for all truth seekers.


The trinity is really incomprehensible by man considering that we know that God the father and God the son are two different but unified personalities. Christianity makes the understandable philosophical mistake of insisting on belief in the Jesus person rather then his unification with and as God the father.

Urantia Book 1955:

"Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic; they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it "in His name."

Colter

[4gold]

Thank you for your post, "BroDave". This has been a subject that I have been chewing on for a while.

Here are some biblical examples that lead me to believe that God doesn't care what religion you are:

(1) Moses, Abraham, and Saul were all practicing "different religions" when God called upon them for service.

(2) "There is neither Jew nor Greek"

However, here are some biblical contents which lead me to believe that God does care what religion you are:

(1) "But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

(2) "No one comes to the Father except through me."

(3) "Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. "

(4) "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs."

(5) "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel"

So here we have the fascinating paradox whereby God apparently welcomes all religions to him, but castigates those who worship anyone but Him.

I would be interested in hearing how you reconcile this apparent paradox. Thanks in advance!

[Rob]

This has been a subject that I have been chewing on for a while.

Here are some biblical examples that lead me to believe that God doesn't care what religion you are:

(1) Moses, Abraham, and Saul were all practicing "different religions" when God called upon them for service.

(2) "There is neither Jew nor Greek."

Jesus' gospel was the simple truth that we are the children of God, and by faith we can realize this truth and experience sonship/daughtership with God, and the corollary of this fact that all man and women are our fellow brothers and sisters; hence the two great commandments to love God and love one's fellows. I can find this essential message taught even within Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and many other religions.

Once we realize God as the Father of all humans, truly in the spiritual family of God "There is neither Jew nor Greek," nor Buddhist or Muslim or Christian in that we are all children of the same Universal Father.

However, here are some biblical contents which lead me to believe that God does care what religion you are:

(1) "But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

[See below.]

(2) "No one comes to the Father except through me."

[See below.]

(3) "Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. "

[This statement is absurd when taken out of the context of ancient times, when rocks, trees, rivers, and mountains were worshiped. Moses was trying trying to teach a group of people with primitive ideas about many gods (polytheism) to become monotheists.]

(4) "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs."

[See above.]

(5) "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel"

[The real question is, what is the gospel of Jesus vs. the gospel about Jesus? What is the religion of Jesus vs. the religion about Jesus? How do we live the faith of Jesus vs. merely parroting beliefs about Jesus?]

So here we have the fascinating paradox whereby God apparently welcomes all religions to him, but castigates those who worship anyone but Him.

I would be interested in hearing how you reconcile this apparent paradox. Thanks in advance!

I can only share some of my views on the points you make above. First, I think modern scholars are able to distinguish statements made in the New Testament that were not original with Jesus, but made about him after the fact as part of the process of the evolving church. Second, some of the statements Jesus did make were made in a specific context, that when they are taken out of context they can be distorted for ends which they were not intended.

For example, you cite Jesus stating the following:

But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. (Luke 12:8)

This would seem to imply that just confessing the name of Jesus is enough, but the following statement is more informative in my view:

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

-- Matt 7:20-22

It seems in my view that merely professing Jesus as Lord is not enough, but one must become lead by the Spirit of Truth, and the bearing the living fruits of the spirit are the only evidence that one has been born of the spirit and has accepted Jesus' teachings and his Spirit of Truth into their life.

Where does this leave those of other religions who bear the living fruits of the spirit in their lives? Personally, I believe that all those who love the truth and worship God by whatever name they use, and bear the fruits of the spirit in their daily lives by loving God and loving one another, even their enemies (Gandhi is a good example), shall enter freely into the gift of eternal life.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness. (Romans 2: 13-15)

Jesus claimed to be a divine Son of God who came teaching the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of all humankind, and for this he was accused of blaspheme; he performed works which only could have been done by the power of God, and when some Jewish leaders accused him, he said:

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (John 10:36-38)

Here, Jesus tells them "though you believe not me" (that he is a divine Son of God) then at least "believe the works: that you may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." In other words, Jesus does not require that we must believe something about him, but that we understand his teachings, which we must perforce live by loving God and loving one another as he has shown us how to do.

All of you who have had the courage to confess faith in my gospel before men I will presently acknowledge before the angels of heaven; but he who shall knowingly deny the truth of my teachings before men shall be denied by his guardian of destiny even before the angels of heaven. (1820.4)

You cite:

No one comes to the Father except through me.

I believe this statement to be true; but to enter into eternal life one need not know this fact, as Jesus makes clear above when he tells the Jewish leaders to believe in the works, even though they may not believe in him. When Jesus was asked what one must do to inherit eternal life, he states plainly:

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise." (Luke 10:25-37)

Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. And for those who are fully aware of who Jesus is, the Son of God, and who call themselves his disciples, we are called to love even our enemies, which is love as Jesus so loved.

I note that when the parable of the dividing of the sheep from the goats is told, it is not those who profess the name of Jesus, but those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, looked after the sick, and gave something to drink to the least of our brethren who are thirsty:

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' (Matthew 25:31-34)

"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away.

Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction.

Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul's religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian. (2091.10)

Do not overlook the fact that the Spirit of Truth was bestowed upon all sincere believers; this gift of the spirit did not come only to the apostles. The one hundred and twenty men and women assembled in the upper chamber all received the new teacher, as did all the honest of heart throughout the whole world. This new teacher was bestowed upon mankind, and every soul received him in accordance with the love for truth and the capacity to grasp and comprehend spiritual realities. At last, true religion is delivered from the custody of priests and all sacred classes and finds its real manifestation in the individual souls of men. (2063.4)

[Rob]

Delete please

[Bro Dave]

Thank you for your post, "BroDave". This has been a subject that I have been chewing on for a while.

Here are some biblical examples that lead me to believe that God doesn't care what religion you are:

(1) Moses, Abraham, and Saul were all practicing "different religions" when God called upon them for service.

(2) "There is neither Jew nor Greek"

However, here are some biblical contents which lead me to believe that God does care what religion you are:

(1) "But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

(2) "No one comes to the Father except through me."

(3) "Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. "

(4) "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs."

(5) "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel"

So here we have the fascinating paradox whereby God apparently welcomes all religions to him, but castigates those who worship anyone but Him.

I would be interested in hearing how you reconcile this apparent paradox. Thanks in advance!

It is all a matter of cultural perspective, and is distorted by both time and interpretations. Clearly, the folks thousands of years ago, has a very earth-centric view of what they saw as “creation”. Neither their culture, nor their science of the day was prepared to understand what is casually understood by even our very young. Literacy was close to zero, and the content of what was to be communicated verbally had to be understood within their very short life lived in narrow in experiences. That is why God always makes sure mankind has a constant influx of new understanding for us all. Jesus mentioned that more information was to be given. We are just now becoming aware of much of it.
The “God” described in the Bible, was tied to the very authoritarian kinds of fathers, who in those days, had literally the power of life and death over their families. It would have seemed strange for them to have been told of our Heavenly Father, who is all loving, and infinitely forgiving. Their societies were based on extremely physical “eye for an eye” kinds of justice, and that is why those kinds of attributes were assigned to God. Fear ruled their lives, not love! And, while we still have a very long way to go, we are, little by little, discovering the love behind Jesus’ teaching the Fatherhood of God, and the Siblinghood of Humankind. God’s love as our Parent supercedes His role as our Judge. It is time to discard the very human image of our INFINITE and Loving Father. It no longer is necessary, and serves only to create an artificial wall between us and Him.

Bro Dave

[chachynga]

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian, but his mission was not religion specific.
Jesus’ mission was to reveal God to us in all ways we are capable of understanding Him.

So UNTRUE.

Christ was NO jew, but his followers doing Gods ways not mans ways are Christians.

[chachynga]

Delete please

Your post is still there, maybe ask again.

Not everyone are the "children of GOD".

Jesus did not come to "Save" Everyone!

Nor is there any BROTHERHOOD of man.


Man did not come from one race nor are we to mix races.


We are to Follow Gods Laws.


But to your credit, just belief and profession of Christ is indeed NOT enough.

God's way's not Man's.


John 3:16 doesn't give you what the pulpits teach, as much of what comes from the "leaders of religion" is Babylonian bullrum.


Do it God's way!

Try to not be Double Minded!

[Rob]

Jesus was a Jew.

So UNTRUE.

Christ was NO jew, but his followers doing Gods ways not mans ways are Christians.

Jesus was deeply Jewish.... Not only was he Jewish by birth and socialization, but he remained a Jew all of his life. His Scripture was the Jewish Bible. He did not intend to establish a new religion, but saw himself as having a mission within Judaism. He spoke as a Jew to other Jews. His early followers were Jewish. All of the authors of the New Testament (with the possible exception of the author of Luke-Acts) were Jewish. (Borg 1995: 22)

Though ... hard to believe, some Christians are apparently unaware of the Jewishness of Jesus, or, if they are aware, do not give it much weight.[3] Moreover, Christians have frequently been guilty of conscious or unconscious anit-Semitism, indentifying Jesus with Christianity and his opponents with Judaism, and thereby seeing Jesus and the early Christian movement as anti-Jewish. Parts of the New Testament as well as the popular image of Jesus encourage the notion that "the Jews" rejected Jesus. (Borg 1995: 22)

But Jesus' opponents did not represent the Jewish people or nation. "The Jews" did not reject Jesus. Rather, the few Jewish persons involved in the events leading to his execution were a small but powerful elite whose power derived from the Romans. Instead of representing the Jews, they might fairly be described as collaborating in the oppression of the Jewish people. (Borg 1995: 22)

The separation of Jesus from Judaism has had tragic consequences for Jews thoughout the centuries. The separation is also historically incorrect, and any faithful image of Jesus must take with utmost seriousness his rootedness in Judaism. (Borg 1995: 22)

[3] See, for example, Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, In Memory of Her (New York: Crossroad, 1985), pp. 105-6, where the author tells about a friend who had to work very hard to convince an adult education class in her parish that Jesus was Jewish, only to have somebody respond, "But the Blessed Mother for sure is not."

-- 1. Borg, Marcus J. Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco; 1995; p. 22.

And if anyone wonders why there were such tragic consequences, one need only look below to the next racist statement:

Man did not come from one race nor are we to mix races.

What an ignorant, bigoted, and racist remark. Indeed, we shall know those who are born of the Spirit and followers of Jesus by their fruits.

Upon what basis, biblical or otherwise, do you claim that we are not to "mix races?" This is a blatantly racist remark, the most un-Christ like spirit one can manifest.

No wonder Jesus sat down to eat with sinners and publicans and those of other races (Samaritans and Gentiles); those who think they are the "saved" such as the divisive hateful spirit exhibited in the racists remark above, would not have sat down with him to sup with him for fear of contamination, the same hateful spirit that leads to the statement that we should not "mix races."

Consider the irony in such unJesusonian racist remarks. There were some Pharasees (not all, mind you) who considered the Samaritans "unclean," and to sit down and sup with them would have "defiled" their self-righteous sense of being ritually clean. Even Jesus' early followers continued in this belief, as was evidenced by their anger at Paul for having sat down to eat with the Gentiles.

And now, here in the twenty-first century, we have a so-called follower of Jesus exhibiting the same hateful, racist attitude in the statement above, as that exhibited by some Pharasees during Jesus' time who looked down upon him and rejected him because he ignored their ignorant racist beliefs and sat down to dine with whomever accepted his invitation, irregardless of their race, religion, or gender.

[Cathar1950]

We should play :Guess my belief system".
I see anti-semitism.
Ignorance of course.
Racism naturally.
So does any one have a quess?
We need more clues.