Christians better work toward separation of church and state

[Zzyzx]

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Christians should work toward separation of church and state because they are soon to be a minority religion -- out paced by Islam worldwide. If churches are allowed to use state powers to enforce their theology, prayer mats could become mandatory and Christians exiled.

So, while Christians still have some political clout they would be well advised to solidify separation of church and state.

As an alternative, Christians could busy themselves reproducing and recruiting to compete numerically with Muslims, who are projected to outnumber Christians in the near future.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Do you care either way?

[Zzyzx]

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Do you care either way?

Of course I care about keeping religion out of government. I don't care which religion is barred from inflicting its beliefs on others through secular law -- instead oppose ALL attempts at theocracy or any form of religious influence on secular law.

Most people seem to accept religious influence on laws PROVIDED it is THEIR religion. However, when theocracy / religious law is acceptable practice and uncontrolled, there is no assurance that their favorite religion will maintain its position and influence -- and may be replaced by a different religion 'calling the shots' -- which Christians may not find so appealing.

'Karma' may 'get' those who promote having secular laws reflect religion when prayer rugs and hijabs become mandatory for THEM

[Wootah]

So why is it particularly a Christian breeding issue?

[Zzyzx]

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So why is it particularly a Christian breeding issue?

Is breeding the ONLY item you noted in the OP?

Try considering:

'Christians should work toward separation of church and state because they are soon to be a minority religion -- out paced by Islam worldwide.

If churches are allowed to use state powers to enforce their theology, prayer mats could become mandatory and Christians exiled.

So, while Christians still have some political clout they would be well advised to solidify separation of church and state.'

Bold added

Do you consider any of the bold issues more significant than breeding?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]

I don't think you understand Islam. There is no separation of church and state. So it won't matter what the host nation believes once there are enough Muslims there.

Christianity believes in it. After all Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars and to God what is God's.

Historically separation of church and state has been a quest for religious freedom not from religious laws.

Honestly as best as I see it the state is the enemy of the Christian. So yeah, I think theye should be separate.

I would advise you to cast your eye on the non Christians who inevitably bind themselves to more and more laws as being the ones that are not separating church and state and nor are they breeding. I point to the increase in human rights as a simple example.

But yeah my job isn't to do anything other than preach the gospel.

[ttruscott]

As the last sinful elect upon the earth are redeemed and return to their GOD, that is, die off, the church will have no more necessity to provide for the faithful who have all left... and is therefore doomed to be destroyed by the secular humanistic state which will take great pride in this accomplishment.

Faithful Christians do not idolize their religions, only Cain does that. Religion on earth, fit only for sinners, is a poor substitute for Paradise, the home of the Faithful. We look forward to perfection, not to preserve that which is inferior.

[Zzyzx]

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I don't think you understand Islam.

Perhaps I DO understand that Islam is NOT alone as a religion that desires theocracy (rule by religion). Christianity and other religions DO aspire to do exactly the same thing when they have the power to do so.

This is demonstrated by 1000 years of Christian theocracy held sway in Europe and later its colonies during the Dark and Middle Ages until its stranglehold on governments was broken by secular opponents.

Those who can take off their Christian glasses can learn that the church has a sorry record of dominating civil affairs when not constrained by opposing forces.

There is no separation of church and state.

Often the goal of religious organizations

So it won't matter what the host nation believes once there are enough Muslims there.

Correction: Foundation laws that protect minorities and separation of powers within government CAN and have prevented religious organizations from gaining control (though Christians keep trying in the US).

Christianity believes in it.

Words and grandiose claims often differ from actions.

After all Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars and to God what is God's.

It appears as though words attributed to Jesus (by who knows whom) encouraged people to pay taxes. Perhaps religious organizations should take heed and pay taxes on their income and property.

Historically separation of church and state has been a quest for religious freedom not from religious laws.

Apparently the Founding Fathers of the US intended to preclude any state sponsorship of religion.

Honestly as best as I see it the state is the enemy of the Christian.

As best I can see the state is the enemy of Christian DOMINATION.

The state has no business being involved in the lives / beliefs / preferences / practices of individuals – provided they do not impinge upon the rights and freedoms of others to live as they choose.

An example: Many Christians agitate for legal discrimination against homosexuality, homosexual marriage, transsexual freedoms, etc – BASED on religious beliefs and ancient texts. The state (the laws) have NO BUSINESS discriminating against anyone and NO REASON to discriminate – but many Christians attempt to use coercion to pass laws favoring their prejudices.

So yeah, I think theye should be separate.

On that we agree

I would advise you to cast your eye on the non Christians who inevitably bind themselves to more and more laws as being the ones that are not separating church and state and nor are they breeding.

Many of us Non-Christians favor passage and enforcement of laws that PROHIBIT discrimination in any form – including religious discrimination. I contend that religion has NO rightful place in government / laws.

I point to the increase in human rights as a simple example.

Who / what groups, if any, do you suggest are involved in / responsible for increasing human rights (if and when that occurs)?

Are human rights increased by discriminatory laws favoring religious views and opinions?

But yeah my job isn't to do anything other than preach the gospel.

Thank you for admitting your agenda.

My agenda is to challenge / oppose those who spread religious propaganda. My method, in this case, is to present readers with an opportunity to compare religious claims and stories with real world observations and information (much to the chagrin, apparently, of debate opponents).

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 8 by Zzyzx]

Thank you for revealing your agenda.

You make honesty sound disrespectful.

Anyway I would like you to note that it is you in a thread created by you on the separation of church and state that wrote:

Many of us Non-Christians favor passage and enforcement of laws that PROHIBIT discrimination in any form – including religious discrimination. I contend that religion has NO rightful place in government / laws

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Why should you entitle yourself to believe that your beliefs should be enshrined in law by the state?

It's hypocrisy.

But it's also understandable when you understand human nature.

Christ freed us from the law by the way and yet atheists seem very intent on joining beliefs and state.

[Zzyzx]

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But yeah my job isn't to do anything other than preach the gospel.

Thank you for admitting your agenda.

You make honesty sound disrespectful.

Is it an example of honesty to have a job of preaching the gospel under the guise of debate on a website that specifically prohibits preaching?

Anyway I would like you to note that it is you in a thread created by you on the separation of church and state that wrote:

Many of us Non-Christians favor passage and enforcement of laws that PROHIBIT discrimination in any form – including religious discrimination. I contend that religion has NO rightful place in government / laws

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Why should you entitle yourself to believe that your beliefs should be enshrined in law by the state?

I have NO 'beliefs' to be 'enshrined in law'. I abide by the Constitution which clearly states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . “

If there is any doubt about the attitudes of Founding Fathers regarding religion, see the thread “Christian Nation?� viewtopic.php?p=737915#737915

Thank you for reminding me about that 2015 thread

It's hypocrisy.

But it's also understandable when you understand human nature.

Readers will decide where hypocrisy lies.

Christ freed us from the law by the way and

Perhaps THAT explains why the vast majority of people in US prisons are Christians – thinking they are 'free from the law'?

yet atheists seem very intent on joining beliefs and state.

Come again?

Is it STILL not clear that Atheism means 'without belief in gods' – which is NOT a belief system (no matter how hard misguided Theists attempt to peddle that nonsense). It is NON sense to try to make it sound as though a non-belief is a belief . . .

Perhaps it is 'human nature' for those who construct their life around religious beliefs to imagine that others must do likewise. Maybe eventually some will realize that life need not be devoted to worshiping gods – or worshiping ANYTHING.