Christianity vs. Democracy

[Bugmaster]

A statement we hear often nowdays is, "America is a Christian nation, it has been established based on Christian moral values". Conservatives use it to push for more "faith-based initiatives", for teaching Creationism in the classroom, and, generally, for tighter state/church integration -- all in the name of freedom and democracy.

However, this statement strikes me as decidedly un-democratic. If America was founded on Christian principles, then it follows that our government derives its authority from God, not from the people it governs. Thus, our government exercises the mandate of Heaven, or the divine right of kinds, and not the will of the populace. This makes democracy moot at best, and un-Christian at worst, because it implies that humans can override the will of the Lord as far as governance is concerned.

So... what's the deal ? Is democracy un-Christian ?

[1John2_26]

A statement we hear often nowdays is, "America is a Christian nation, it has been established based on Christian moral values". Conservatives use it to push for more "faith-based initiatives", for teaching Creationism in the classroom, and, generally, for tighter state/church integration -- all in the name of freedom and democracy.

It seems that Christians just want what other citizens possess. The desire for free speech that as we can clearly see "in the classroom" is denied to them. Also since I became a Christian I have heard other Christians preach and teach that America was founded as a Christian nation but I think it is just wishful thinking. The greatest ideas may have come from some Christians within the founding of America but as a search of the beliefs of many founders such as Thomas Jefferson, we see they were not "Christians."

Imagine if the Indians - that were ravaged by the greed that gripped a nation - would have been introduced to the concept of "Loving your neighbor as yourself."

However, this statement strikes me as decidedly un-democratic. If America was founded on Christian principles, then it follows that our government derives its authority from God, not from the people it governs.

Proving that America could have been the first truly Christian nation on earth allowing different Christian denominations to decide issues but as we can see the populace has taken control of morality and life. Not good.

Thus, our government exercises the mandate of Heaven, or the divine right of kinds, and not the will of the populace.

From America's history, we see that this has rarely ever happened and goes against the "will of the people." Look at the divorce rate and the cause of it. Sexual licentiousness in the majority of the cases. I'd wager a bet.

This makes democracy moot at best, and un-Christian at worst, because it implies that humans can override the will of the Lord as far as governance is concerned.

Proof that America is not a Christian nation and never has been.

So... what's the deal ? Is democracy un-Christian ?

Only when it is un-Christian. The New Testament points to a "consensus" of minds to form the early Church. Now, of course, chaos has been implemented by some masking their true anti-Christian intentions in Christian labels. That too is in the New Testament.

But American democracy "Christian?" The attempt is made but fought by opposing forces so often.

[McCulloch]

If America was founded on Christian principles, then it follows that our government derives its authority from God, not from the people it governs.

Proving that America could have been the first truly Christian nation on earth allowing different Christian denominations to decide issues but as we can see the populace has taken control of morality and life. Not good.

There seems to be a few implied assumptions in this answer. One is that denominationalism and sectarianism is a necessary part of Christianity. This I fail to see taught in the New Testament. An other is that the accepted Christian way to deal with ethical and doctrinal differences is to allow each group (sect, denomination, confession) to decide for itself how to proceed on each issue. While this has been the pattern of Christianity in recent years, I seem to have missed where that is taught in the New Testament and it was not the practice of Christians for much of their history.
1John2, are you advocating that the leaders of the various Christian denominations should have been in charge of the making of laws which may have moral implications? If so, then come right out and say it. You believe that Christian Theocracy would be better than Democracy.

So... what's the deal ? Is democracy un-Christian ?

Only when it is un-Christian.

Tautology anyone? Democracy is un-Christian only when it is un-Christian. The people should be free to govern themselves but only within the confines and restrictions of a particular religion.

The New Testament points to a "consensus" of minds to form the early Church.

I missed that in my reading of the New Testament. The closest that I can find is a consensus of a group of church leaders in Acts who make decisions for the entire group. Could you please point me to the New Testament passages that refer to this democratic process in the early Church?

[Bugmaster]

Imagine if the Indians - that were ravaged by the greed that gripped a nation - would have been introduced to the concept of "Loving your neighbor as yourself."

Yeah, how about those greedy Indians, hogging the continent all by themselves ! We introduced them to smallpox, I am sure that loving your neighbour was next on the agenda.

Seriously, what's your point ?

From America's history, we see that this has rarely ever happened and goes against the "will of the people." Look at the divorce rate and the cause of it. Sexual licentiousness in the majority of the cases. I'd wager a bet.

Ok, how does this relate to government ?

But American democracy "Christian?" The attempt is made but fought by opposing forces so often.

Just to clarify: I am not concerned with America specifically, but with the idea of democracy in general. I claim that a government that derives its authority from the people (democracy) is un-Christian (*), because, under Christianity, all authority must derive from God.

(*) or, at least, un-Conservative-Christian

[jcrawford]

So... what's the deal ? Is democracy un-Christian ?

A non-Christian democracy certainly is un-Christian.

That's why a republican form of government is guaranteed US in the USC.

If you want to change our current form of government into a democracy, a Christian democracy would suit most American Christians just fine.

[McCulloch]

If you want to change our current form of government into a democracy, a Christian democracy would suit most American Christians just fine.

What is a Christian democracy? If the majority of the people do not hold Christian values, then how can it be a democracy and still Christian? Please make up your mind. Are you advocating that only Christians should be allowed to vote? Or is it that only Christians should be allowed to run? Or perhaps that certain Christian values should be enshrined in the constitution? Please explain.
From where I sit, you either have to advocate a movement towards more democracy in government or more Christianity in government. Both at the same time is logically impossible.

[jcrawford]

If you want to change our current form of government into a democracy, a Christian democracy would suit most American Christians just fine.

What is a Christian democracy? If the majority of the people do not hold Christian values, then how can it be a democracy and still Christian? Please make up your mind. Are you advocating that only Christians should be allowed to vote? Or is it that only Christians should be allowed to run? Or perhaps that certain Christian values should be enshrined in the constitution? Please explain.
From where I sit, you either have to advocate a movement towards more democracy in government or more Christianity in government. Both at the same time is logically impossible.

A Christian democracy would be like a Muslim democracy or a Jewish democracy. You don't have a problem with US support of religious democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq and Israel, do you?

[McCulloch]

If you want to change our current form of government into a democracy, a Christian democracy would suit most American Christians just fine.

What is a Christian democracy? If the majority of the people do not hold Christian values, then how can it be a democracy and still Christian? Please make up your mind. Are you advocating that only Christians should be allowed to vote? Or is it that only Christians should be allowed to run? Or perhaps that certain Christian values should be enshrined in the constitution? Please explain.
From where I sit, you either have to advocate a movement towards more democracy in government or more Christianity in government. Both at the same time is logically impossible.

A Christian democracy would be like a Muslim democracy or a Jewish democracy. You don't have a problem with US support of religious democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq and Israel, do you?

Why would you think that I don't? I do not think that religious democracies can exist.
Democracy - the laws and rules are made by a consensus of the people who are to live under those laws and rules. By imposing a specific religious creed on top of the democratic system, you are reducing the level of democracy. The American doctrine of separation of religion from government is a good and necessary thing. Religion in government cannot help but bring about rights violations.
So, what kind of Christian democracy are you proposing? Like the alleged Jewish democracy where people of a specific religion are granted privileges with regard to immigration. And like the alleged Islamic democracies where the rules of a Holy Book and its official interpreters override the will of the people.

[jcrawford]

A Christian democracy would be like a Muslim democracy or a Jewish democracy. You don't have a problem with US support of religious democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq and Israel, do you?

Why would you think that I don't? I do not think that religious democracies can exist.

I don't think secular democracies will survive much longer.

So, what kind of Christian democracy are you proposing?

I'll go along with what the legislatures are establishing in South Dakota and Missouri for the time being.

New York State will be more difficult. Maybe we can try for a Judeo-Christian democracy here with special representation for the Muslim minority.

[Cathar1950]

jcrawford

I don't think secular democracies will survive much longer.

I think that is just wishful thinking on your part. It might become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

New York State will be more difficult. Maybe we can try for a Judeo-Christian democracy here with special representation for the Muslim minority.

Why would you want any one but Christians with special representation?

A Christian democracy would be like a Muslim democracy or a Jewish democracy. You don't have a problem with US support of religious democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq and Israel, do you?

Do you have problems with these religious democracies?
Would you rather be under theirs or a secular government that protects yours and every one elses rights?