Killing Humans

[Paveway]

Why is it "wrong" and against the Law to Kill Humans?
Humans are classified as animals, and according to the Darwinian theory we are Animals, but it isn't as bad to kill animals and it isn't "wrong" AT ALL to kill insects.
So why is it "immoral" to Kill Humans?
(Spiritualists please don't answer this question, this is entirely for the Agnostics and Atheists thankyou, the reason why is because this is too easy for a God believing Human, and you will ruin my plot)

[McCulloch]

Why is it "wrong" and against the Law to Kill Humans?
Humans are classified as animals, and according to the Darwinian theory we are Animals, but it isn't as bad to kill animals and it isn't "wrong" AT ALL to kill insects.
So why is it "immoral" to Kill Humans?

OK. I'll take the bait.

Firstly, it is a very rare human society that has a total and complete ban on killing humans. War, self-defence, capital punishment, suicide and mercy killing have all been accepted by various human societies. However, humans are a social animal. Our survival as a species depends on our ability to get along with other humans. By ourselves in the wilderness, we would not compete well with the other animals. Therefore, human societies have developed rules of behaviour which increase our chances of genetic survival. The taboo against killing other humans, except in specific designated circumstances, greatly increases our chances of genetic survival. Therefore, those human societies which did not adopt that taboo, did not, as a group, survive.

[ST88]

Why is it "wrong" and against the Law to Kill Humans?

McCulloch answered this pretty well, but I'd like to point out that you're asking two different questions. Why is it "wrong" to kill humans? and Why is it against the law to kill humans?.

The first question about wrongness is necessarily relative, as McCulloch points out. As a general rule, we "feel" that it is wrong to kill others. I would argue that it's a higher-level instinct to not kill others. Sometimes, however, lower-level instincts take over, and for reasons that are more basic than empathy, someone gets the urge to kill another. Fortunately, we are endowed with an intelligence that is the arbiter of instincts, and we can understand how these feelings should not be acted upon.

The second question about it being against the law is for reasons of basic civil order. A) Killings almost necessarily incite counter-killings in a never-ending cycle of revenge; B) Citizens in a free society should be allowed to remain in that society so long as they wish, and not have their freedom to pursue life, liberty, happiness cut short by someone else; C) Just because we are animals doesn't mean we can't be civilized.

[Bugmaster]

I can offer a more selfish explanation, too:

It's against the law to kill humans because I don't want to live in a society when someone can just walk up and kill me; and I'm willing to sacrifice my freedom to walk up to someone else and kill him, in exchange for having society where my life is protected. Most people think like I do, hence the law.

It's wrong to kill humans because any culture that thinks otherwise would kill itself into oblivion. Thus, the prohibition against murdering your own people gets wired into us at the deep, subconscious level -- and is most likely genetic, as well.

[juliod]

but it isn't as bad to kill animals and it isn't "wrong" AT ALL to kill insects.

Because we are not in the same species as the other animals and the insects.

A species that kills it's own kind reduces it's own reproductive success and will tedn to die out.

Animals have evolved many different ways to avoid direct competition that might lead to intra-species deaths. The tendancy of young adults to disperse away from the central family or pride is a typical process to achieve this end. Territoriality is another.

Humans, of course, are the worst of the animals at avoiding intra-species killing. War being essentially unknown in the rest of the animal kingdom. It's probably religion's fault, since we read in the bible how god is always ordering his people to butcher and murder other people.

DanZ

[Paveway]

Firstly, it is a very rare human society that has a total and complete ban on killing humans. War, self-defence, capital punishment, suicide and mercy killing have all been accepted by various human societies. However, humans are a social animal. Our survival as a species depends on our ability to get along with other humans. By ourselves in the wilderness, we would not compete well with the other animals. Therefore, human societies have developed rules of behaviour which increase our chances of genetic survival. The taboo against killing other humans, except in specific designated circumstances, greatly increases our chances of genetic survival. Therefore, those human societies which did not adopt that taboo, did not, as a group, survive.

But why are there SOME bans on killing Humans?
There are many people who do not get along with other people.
There are billions of Humans in the World why not kill a few?
How have we developed these rules? and why?
There are too many people in the World, genetic survival is too far, and what about people who don't want to survive or reproduce?
But abortion cancels out survival.

The first question about wrongness is necessarily relative, as McCulloch points out. As a general rule, we "feel" that it is wrong to kill others. I would argue that it's a higher-level instinct to not kill others. Sometimes, however, lower-level instincts take over, and for reasons that are more basic than empathy, someone gets the urge to kill another. Fortunately, we are endowed with an intelligence that is the arbiter of instincts, and we can understand how these feelings should not be acted upon.

Why do we have feelings?
Why respect feelings?
Whats wrong with killing someone?
We kill animals, they have feelings as well.

The second question about it being against the law is for reasons of basic civil order. A) Killings almost necessarily incite counter-killings in a never-ending cycle of revenge; B) Citizens in a free society should be allowed to remain in that society so long as they wish, and not have their freedom to pursue life, liberty, happiness cut short by someone else; C) Just because we are animals doesn't mean we can't be civilized.

Whats wrong with having people break the Law?
Whats wrong with a never-ending cycle of Revenge?
Why do people have a right to remain in a society as long as they wish?
Why is Life so important? why is Liberty so important?
Why not cut someone's life?
But why should we be civilised?
What is civilised?

It's against the law to kill humans because I don't want to live in a society when someone can just walk up and kill me; and I'm willing to sacrifice my freedom to walk up to someone else and kill him, in exchange for having society where my life is protected. Most people think like I do, hence the law.

Why can't someone kill you? whats wrong with that?
Why have the Law?
Why protect your Life? why is it so important?

It's wrong to kill humans because any culture that thinks otherwise would kill itself into oblivion. Thus, the prohibition against murdering your own people gets wired into us at the deep, subconscious level -- and is most likely genetic, as well.

How about Kill one or two people for no reason to lower the population?
Why is it genetic?
Why is it 'wrong' to kill a few people like me?

Because we are not in the same species as the other animals and the insects.

But we CAME FROM the same species as other Animals and insects.

Humans, of course, are the worst of the animals at avoiding intra-species killing. War being essentially unknown in the rest of the animal kingdom. It's probably religion's fault, since we read in the bible how god is always ordering his people to butcher and murder other people.

Are you simple? Stalin, Marx, and many OTHER atheists murdered MILLIONS of people, and those peple who were told to kill by God were told so IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

[Wyvern]

But why are there SOME bans on killing Humans?

Generally the only types of killing allowed are state sanctioned. These bans are in place in order to support civil order, which is one of a states primary duties.

There are many people who do not get along with other people.

Correct which is one of the reasons the forementioned rules were put in place.

There are billions of Humans in the World why not kill a few?

Because you might be one of those killed and you probably wouldn't like that.

How have we developed these rules? and why?

It took a long time and a lot of experimentation. Why, lots of reasons a big one is an attempt to create stability in which the state can grow and expand.

There are too many people in the World, genetic survival is too far, and what about people who don't want to survive or reproduce?
But abortion cancels out survival.

Don't worry about the world population, Japan and most of western europe are already either at or under stable birth rate numbers. If individuals don't want to survive or reproduce, they dont have to, the species as a whole won't notice.

Why do we have feelings?

Because thats how the brain was made, plus its also needed for reproduction and child rearing due to the condition of children for their first decade or so.

Why respect feelings?

Because you have them too and you probably dont like having them hurt. Think of the golden rule.

Whats wrong with killing someone?

Other than the legal and moral issues that have already been covered thoroughly by others in previous posts, unless you are a psychopath or literally amoral killing someone does a lot of psychological damage to the killer, even if it is during warfare or any other justifiable reason.

We kill animals, they have feelings as well.

And just like other predatory species we generally don't kill each other while at the same time kill other creatures for food.

Whats wrong with having people break the Law?

Because the law is the compact we enter into when participating in a society, which is why children aren't held to as high of a standard. If the vast majority of people didn't more or less follow the law civilization would collapse and billions would die.

Whats wrong with a never-ending cycle of Revenge?

It ends badly, one person left and all they get to do then is turn off all the lights and wait for the inevitable.

Why do people have a right to remain in a society as long as they wish?

In most western nations at least this is true, if you dont like where you are go somewhere else. Why, simply because banishment is no longer an option.

Why is Life so important? why is Liberty so important?

As far as life goes you mostly have two choices life or death. Noone really knows what happens when you die so it is generally feared which means most people try to stay away from it. Since we are alive we might as well have some liberty in order to maximize our enjoyment of the time we have.

But why should we be civilised?

Mostly an academic question since we have no choice in the matter anymore but to use a quote without civilization life world be brutish violent and short.

What is civilised?

Civilization is the sum total of all the cultures societies and nations, more specifically it is all the little things which make these things possible(i.e. farming, sewers, computers etc.)

Why protect your Life? why is it so important?

Your life is the most valuable thing you have, without it nothing else is possible.

How about Kill one or two people for no reason to lower the population?

The reasoning doesn't matter except in matters of self defense.

Why is it genetic?

Because the behavior has been exhibited in a number of species.

Why is it 'wrong' to kill a few people like me?

Its not just you its everyone.

But we CAME FROM the same species as other Animals and insects.

Only if you go back far enough, and if you believe in evolution.

Are you simple? Stalin, Marx, and many OTHER atheists murdered MILLIONS of people, and those peple who were told to kill by God were told so IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Umm, how about the crusades the hundred years war, joan d'arc, islamic suicide bombers the spanish inquisition. All this and more has been done in the name of god. By the way Marx never killed anyone as far as I know

[McCulloch]

But abortion cancels out survival.

No it does not. Allowing for the abortion of unwanted preganacies, increases the chances of survival for the wanted offspring.

Whats wrong with having people break the Law?
Whats wrong with a never-ending cycle of Revenge?
Why do people have a right to remain in a society as long as they wish?
Why is Life so important? why is Liberty so important?
Why not cut someone's life?
But why should we be civilised?
What is civilised?

Simply because society does not work without laws. We are a social species. We need rules to govern our own interactions, otherwise we lose the social glue that allows us to act together rather than individually.

Why can't someone kill you? whats wrong with that?
Why have the Law? Why protect your Life? why is it so important?

You mean besides social order and civilization. My life is important to me because it is all that I really know.

[Paveway]

Generally the only types of killing allowed are state sanctioned. These bans are in place in order to support civil order, which is one of a states primary duties.

Why have civil order?

Correct which is one of the reasons the forementioned rules were put in place.

Why?

Because you might be one of those killed and you probably wouldn't like that.

Why wouldn't i like that? what is wrong with killing a human?
Who cares what i like...why is it a big thing?

It took a long time and a lot of experimentation. Why, lots of reasons a big one is an attempt to create stability in which the state can grow and expand.

But many states have TOO many people, why not lower the population by killing a few for no reason?
We have expanded around the World we can stop expanding now.

Don't worry about the world population, Japan and most of western europe are already either at or under stable birth rate numbers. If individuals don't want to survive or reproduce, they dont have to, the species as a whole won't notice.

BUT WHY NOT KILL A HUMAN FOR NO REASON?
Just a few Humans is not going to make a difference in the Populus of the World.
WHy is it wrong to Kill a Human?

Because thats how the brain was made, plus its also needed for reproduction and child rearing due to the condition of children for their first decade or so.

But what is wrong with killing humans?
Why is the Human Life sooooooooooooooooooo important?

Because you have them too and you probably dont like having them hurt. Think of the golden rule.

But what is wrong with hurting someones feelings?
Animals have feelings as well, but we don't have Laws against slaughtering them.

Other than the legal and moral issues that have already been covered thoroughly by others in previous posts, unless you are a psychopath or literally amoral killing someone does a lot of psychological damage to the killer, even if it is during warfare or any other justifiable reason.

Why is Legality so important?
Why is morality so important?

And just like other predatory species we generally don't kill each other while at the same time kill other creatures for food.

WHat about the Hunting season?
How come we are more civil than animals?
Every animal has intelligence, every animal has a brain, every animal has a LIFE.
WE SUPPOSEDLY came from animals, so why is it ok to kill other animals but not ourselves?

Because the law is the compact we enter into when participating in a society, which is why children aren't held to as high of a standard. If the vast majority of people didn't more or less follow the law civilization would collapse and billions would die.

But the majority break the Law as of now.
Why is it wrong if Billions die?

In most western nations at least this is true, if you dont like where you are go somewhere else. Why, simply because banishment is no longer an option.

Why not kill the person instead?

As far as life goes you mostly have two choices life or death. Noone really knows what happens when you die so it is generally feared which means most people try to stay away from it. Since we are alive we might as well have some liberty in order to maximize our enjoyment of the time we have.

WHy is Life so important? so as not to die?
what is wrong with dieing?
Why let someone have enjoyment?
What is enjoyment?

Mostly an academic question since we have no choice in the matter anymore but to use a quote without civilization life world be brutish violent and short.

What is wrong with violence?
WHat is wrong with a short life?

Civilization is the sum total of all the cultures societies and nations, more specifically it is all the little things which make these things possible(i.e. farming, sewers, computers etc.)

And how are they civilised by doing such things?

Your life is the most valuable thing you have, without it nothing else is possible.

What is valuable about Life? how do you know that nothing else is possible?

The reasoning doesn't matter except in matters of self defense.

But if i did kill some people why would i be trialed and punished for it?

Because the behavior has been exhibited in a number of species.

So furry animals are civil?

Its not just you its everyone.

WHats wrong if i kill a few people?

Only if you go back far enough, and if you believe in evolution.

But nevertheless we still have the same blood as those species.

Umm, how about the crusades the hundred years war, joan d'arc, islamic suicide bombers the spanish inquisition. All this and more has been done in the name of god. By the way Marx never killed anyone as far as I know

Crusades=Catholic.
Joan of arc=Catholic.
Islamic suicide bombers=Islamic.
Spanish Inquisition=Catholic.
In the name of WHICH God?

No it does not. Allowing for the abortion of unwanted preganacies, increases the chances of survival for the wanted offspring.

??? but it is still murder.
YOu are still killing the baby.

Simply because society does not work without laws. We are a social species. We need rules to govern our own interactions, otherwise we lose the social glue that allows us to act together rather than individually.

WHy have a society that works?
We are not all social species.
WHy not act individually?

You mean besides social order and civilization. My life is important to me because it is all that I really know.

This is an interesting statement...maybe the beginning of Truth...
Why is it important just because it is all that you really know?
WHat is knowledge?

[ST88]

Why have civil order?

Paveway:

Your persistent and important questions seem to wonder why we aren't all just solipsistic nihilists. Well, some are. And some are altruists. And most of us fall somewhere in the middle. We are captives to our biological history -- our evolutionary development made us into a social species. We crave the attention and the company of others. Our brain gives us little chemical rewards when we interact with others. Even when those interactions are hostile.

As for civilization, humans decided a long time ago that it was better to put down roots (pardon the pun) somewhere than remain as nomads. It is better for resource gathering, for morale, for social interaction in general. Communities that were more cohesive tended to survive better than those that weren't. Civil order is important because it has been shown that people are generally more contented in an ordered society than in an unordered one, and contentment is a biological condition. For me, that's the common denominator for human behavior -- the biology of the brain. We have empathy because we have been hard-wired that way by evolution.