Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true. For the sake of argument, please limit your criticisms to internal critiques of conservative Christian belief.
The Bible, which contains 66 books (Catholics have a few more), is believed by conservative Christians to be the inerrant, inspired word of God. Despite this, conservative Christians believe that humans wrote the Bible while being guided by God. All of the authors who contributed to the Bible are believed to be men; not a single woman was involved in the process.
Debate questions: Why weren't women tasked with writing the Bible? Why are there no women Biblical authors? Does the Christian god have a bias against women writing his words? Is the Christian god misogynistic for not including women in the writing process?
Why no women Biblical authors?
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Post #21Lets take a wider look!puddleglum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:48 am God created men and women to fill different roles.
The most obvious difference is seen in the process of reproduction. It is the woman who carries the baby in her body until it is able to live in the outside world. She produces the milk the baby needs until it is old enough to digest solid food. Does the fact that no man is able to do this mean that God is biased against men?
Each sex has different rights and responsibilities i marriage.
The husband must love his wife enough to be willing to sacrifice his life for her; the wife must submit to her husband and obey him.Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word.
(Ephesians 5:22-26 ESV)
(Marriage is intended to show the relationship between Christ and the church. That means marriage can only be between a man and a woman because a union of two men or two women doesn't accurately illustrate the relationship.)
Finally God has decreed that men have the responsibility for teaching and exercising spiritual leadership.
The fact that only men were used to write the Bible doesn't mean that they are superior to women but that they play a different role in God's plan.Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 ESV)
According to Mormon conservative christianity the Book of Mormon also were written by several male prophets, but no women!
Yet there was one exception, if not in gender than in race.
Samuel, the Lamanite Prophet
So there ARE exceptions from common rules for prophets - but they do not go so far to include the female gender!
Christianity is as anty-female as Jewish religion and Islam
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #22How do we know women were not tasked? If we don't have anything by women, it would also mean that they rejected the task.Haven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:16 pm ...
Debate questions: Why weren't women tasked with writing the Bible? Why are there no women Biblical authors? Does the Christian god have a bias against women writing his words? Is the Christian god misogynistic for not including women in the writing process?
I think the goal was to deliver a message and it has nothing to do with what gender people are. And I believe the job required people who are not hungry for power and own glory. Perhaps that is the reason why no women.
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #23Women in Judaism weren’t educated to read or write. Does this matter? They were far and away middle eastern men. No Africans, no Asians and maybe no Europeans. (Maybe Luke was European.) Does that matter?Haven wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:16 pm Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true. For the sake of argument, please limit your criticisms to internal critiques of conservative Christian belief.
The Bible, which contains 66 books (Catholics have a few more), is believed by conservative Christians to be the inerrant, inspired word of God. Despite this, conservative Christians believe that humans wrote the Bible while being guided by God. All of the authors who contributed to the Bible are believed to be men; not a single woman was involved in the process.
Debate questions: Why weren't women tasked with writing the Bible? Why are there no women Biblical authors? Does the Christian god have a bias against women writing his words? Is the Christian god misogynistic for not including women in the writing process?
I’ve heard some women voice opinions that I thought downright evil. Just because a person is female doesn’t mean they represent my views or have anything worthwhile to say.
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #24[Replying to Haven in post #1]
It ought to be discussed why some were tasked with writing down these things and why some simply wrote having no idea it would be kept as scripture. What was it about them that was different? But that’s a different question. It is noticeable that the whole question is aimed at accusing God (sigh again) of prejudice.
It ought to be discussed why some were tasked with writing down these things and why some simply wrote having no idea it would be kept as scripture. What was it about them that was different? But that’s a different question. It is noticeable that the whole question is aimed at accusing God (sigh again) of prejudice.
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #25Well, yes, Women were inferiors if not property of their crown, head and masters - just as we'd expect if the Religion was designed by men to suit men and with no other origin.
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #26[Replying to Haven in post #1]
In abrahamic religion a female starts off as property of her father (If father dies, becomes property of brother) and is later from him GIVEN to the new owner, her husband.
So why should the bible narrative set up an OWNED ITEM as a high spiritual teacher (prophet)?
Paul knew that and finally forbade women to teach.
Thats why we do have one lamanite prophet, but zero girlie prophetesses.
Lamanites were seen as commonly evil and completely racial inferior. Yet they (the males) didnt belong to other humans.
So, at last in theory, they were free to prophecy
And Samuel the Lamanite jumped at that chance when he saw it
In abrahamic religion a female starts off as property of her father (If father dies, becomes property of brother) and is later from him GIVEN to the new owner, her husband.
So why should the bible narrative set up an OWNED ITEM as a high spiritual teacher (prophet)?
Paul knew that and finally forbade women to teach.
Thats why we do have one lamanite prophet, but zero girlie prophetesses.
Lamanites were seen as commonly evil and completely racial inferior. Yet they (the males) didnt belong to other humans.
So, at last in theory, they were free to prophecy
And Samuel the Lamanite jumped at that chance when he saw it
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #27"There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher." So much for "zero girlie prophetesses."The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:07 am [Replying to Haven in post #1]
In abrahamic religion a female starts off as property of her father (If father dies, becomes property of brother) and is later from him GIVEN to the new owner, her husband.
So why should the bible narrative set up an OWNED ITEM as a high spiritual teacher (prophet)?
Paul knew that and finally forbade women to teach.
Thats why we do have one lamanite prophet, but zero girlie prophetesses.
Lamanites were seen as commonly evil and completely racial inferior. Yet they (the males) didnt belong to other humans.
So, at last in theory, they were free to prophecy
And Samuel the Lamanite jumped at that chance when he saw it
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #28Both NT and OT have a few handy female enablers. Male - dominated socialestatesand customs can always find a fewfemaleflying monkeys to peddle the message - especially ifg they have been sold it as a Beliefg.
I havd heard an African girl reading out a prepared speech arguing for child labor. I watched a girl in a Hijab arguing for how she felt 'safer' wearing it. Well maybe she did, but my argument would be - do you have the freedom to NOT wear it?
The same applied with Paul's greetings to a few female enablers in Rome. Sure, they can set out the chairs and prepare the tea and buns for the men, but a voice, let alone a position of real Authority in the church, no cover your head, stay at the back and keep quiet . This has been male controlled and dominated all through and it took till the last century to get from where women had the vote and could even be heads of state, to where they could be heads of Churches. Religion fought it all that time. I believe Catholicism still does.
I havd heard an African girl reading out a prepared speech arguing for child labor. I watched a girl in a Hijab arguing for how she felt 'safer' wearing it. Well maybe she did, but my argument would be - do you have the freedom to NOT wear it?
The same applied with Paul's greetings to a few female enablers in Rome. Sure, they can set out the chairs and prepare the tea and buns for the men, but a voice, let alone a position of real Authority in the church, no cover your head, stay at the back and keep quiet . This has been male controlled and dominated all through and it took till the last century to get from where women had the vote and could even be heads of state, to where they could be heads of Churches. Religion fought it all that time. I believe Catholicism still does.
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #29https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_th ... xt=Anna%20
Yeah. Brief appearance in the NT, because needed for dramaturgy.
Still no godfearing prophecieing gals wide an' far in the OT.
It is exactly the way our ol' pal Transponder, with his as usual bad to unreadable grammatics, spells out.
Some NT writers aknowledged that females in the new testament times now had to be sometimes referred to in a the politically correct way.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:29 am Both NT and OT have a few handy female enablers. Male - dominated socialestatesand customs can always find a fewfemaleflying monkeys to peddle the message - especially ifg they have been sold it as a Beliefg.
I havd heard an African girl reading out a prepared speech arguing for child labor. I watched a girl in a Hijab arguing for how she felt 'safer' wearing it. Well maybe she did, but my argument would be - do you have the freedom to NOT wear it?
The same applied with Paul's greetings to a few female enablers in Rome. Sure, they can set out the chairs and prepare the tea and buns for the men, but a voice, let alone a position of real Authority in the church, no cover your head, stay at the back and keep quiet . This has been male controlled and dominated all through and it took till the last century to get from where women had the vote and could even be heads of state, to where they could be heads of Churches. Religion fought it all that time. I believe Catholicism still does.
"Oh great! She greeted Jesus at the temple."
"Oh great! She reads out a prepared speach for child labour."
"Oh great! She defends her Hijab."
"Oh great, Lydia became per chance first christian in europe."
"Oh great! Wenches are allowed to set out chairs for the christian congregation in rome."
Bad analogy.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:29 am Both NT and OT have a few handy female enablers. Male - dominated socialestatesand customs can always find a fewfemaleflying monkeys to peddle the message - especially ifg they have been sold it as a Beliefg.
The flying monkeys (of unknown, but understood as rather male gender) were sent out by a female who was main antagonist, against another female who was main protagonist.
OZ series could never replace the bible. Too many female main chars and womens rights.
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: Why no women Biblical authors?
Post #30First, nothing would seem to answer your goal of casting aspersions on the NT. You say no female prophets. I show you you’re wrong, you refuse to admit that you’re wrong and denigrate the office of a prophet to “a brief appearance.” It’s hopeless.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 12:16 amhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_th ... xt=Anna%20
Yeah. Brief appearance in the NT, because needed for dramaturgy.
Wrong again. I assure you every prophet/prophetess of God is God-fearing. Prophets on any sort aren’t wide and far.Still no godfearing prophecieing gals wide an' far in the OT.
Not my problem.It is exactly the way our ol' pal Transponder, with his as usual bad to unreadable grammatics, spells out.