Ancient Egypt and a young Earth

[QED]

Up until last night, watching a BBC dramatization of the translation of the Rosetta Stone (a proclamation by Pharaoh Ptolemy V written in three different texts), I hadn't appreciated that Champollion (the Frenchman credited with being the first to understand the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs) was on a mission to find out about the age of the world.

Thanks to his work subsequent translations of the copious written material found in tombs has provided us with a comprehensive list of individuals dating to and around the same era as Noah's Flood -- supposed to have happened in 2370 BCE. From the archeology this would have been during the fifth dynasty, more specifically during the reign of a King called Djedkare who was living from around 2450-2300 BCE

So how can it have been business as usual in Egypt while the rest of the world was supposed to have been submerged? In the 1820's the Roman Catholic Church was breathing down Champollion's neck nervous of what he might uncover. It seems that Champollion took some of his own discoveries to his grave for fear of the heresy it represented.

But the facts and figures have been readily available ever since so I'd like to see a convincing explanation for this mismatch between the information acquired from the Archeology in Egypt and the supposed dating of the Noahic Flood from the YEC perspective. Searching these Forums for king "Djedkare" came up with nothing so perhaps this hasn't been debated before. I know there are a few YEC's active here so I hope we can have a good debate about it now.

[jcrawford]

But the facts and figures have been readily available ever since so I'd like to see a convincing explanation for this mismatch between the information acquired from the Archeology in Egypt and the supposed dating of the Noahic Flood from the YEC perspective. Searching these Forums for king "Djedkare" came up with nothing so perhaps this hasn't been debated before. I know there are a few YEC's active here so I hope we can have a good debate about it now.

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

[McCulloch]

Biblical literalist chronology seems to be a bit weak with regard to dating Noah's flood:

• 2304 BC Answering Genesis The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC +/- 11 years.
• between 2500 BC and 2300 BC. Creation Tips According to the Jewish historian Josephus, Irish archbishop and chronologist James Ussher, and most conservative Christian scholars, the Flood of Noah's time occurred between 2500 BC and 2300 BC.
• close to 3000 BC The Date of Noah's Flood: Literary and Archaeological Evidence by Dr. David Livingston There are important reasons for reexamining the evidence which points to a date closer to 3000 BC. ... When literary documents are present to date an event, these must have precedence over and control scientific observations and dating which conflicts with the literary evidence. This is so in that ancient documents are eyewitness observations of the events recorded. And isn't this what science is all about?
• 9600 BC Why I think Noah's "erets" flood occurred around 9,600 BC and ended in Turkey.
• 19,000 BC Proof that the Biblical tale of Noah's Ark is true the radical proposal we have been presenting for the last 4 years (now on our website) is that Noah's Flood took place in about 19,000BC

[Scrotum]

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

Obviously.....

[micatala]

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

Now, I know we are not doing mathematics here, but I should note that when a person uses the word 'obvious' in a mathematical proof, it sometimes means they actually have no clue about how to prove what they are saying, and simply want you to ignore this particular point and go on. One should be especially wary when the supposedly obvious statement seems anything but.

It seems to me that if anything is obvious, it is that the flood did not occur as currently understood by young earth creationists. For example, see here for some discussion on this forum with links to references to the bristlecone pines, which show at least that all but the last two dates for a global flood are impossible.

[juliod]

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

But the Oxford Illustrated History of Ancient Egypt starts at 750,000 BC.

When was the Flood, you say?

BTW, this same argument works for the Minoan, Mycanean, and other ancient civilizations. Even the buried ones do not seem to have left evidence of the flood.

DanZ

[Cathar1950]

I read the sites. It was interesting, it does seems that there were many floods and would explain why it is embeded in out myths and history. I am going out on a limb here, but clearly it is a myth, a tale woven in to the Torah from many diverse sources. It is most likely one of many stories handed down to us after they were handed down. The diversity and time for the spread of humans already shows it to be a myth. Granted a story not unlike any that explain our connectiveness which is the "Obvious".
But a factual history or truth it is not. An allegory or metaphor maybe.
I notice in all the link they were sub-consciencely assuming to be true. Maybe it is a compost story used by the writers in the 7th to 5th century adding folklore to other traditions using the times to reflect their values? Oh, wait that is what happened. Show me where it doesn't.

[jcrawford]

Biblical literalist chronology seems to be a bit weak with regard to dating Noah's flood:

No weaker than neo-Darwinist literalist chronologies seem to be a mite weak with regard to dating the non-fossilzed skull of Rhodesian Man.

1921: Arthur Smith Woodward, the discover - 11,000 YA
1962: Carleton Coon - 40,000 YA
1973: Richard . Klein - 125,000 YA
1999: Ian Tattersall - 3 - 400 TYA

All because evolutionists and creationists both detected and pounced on the racial implications inherent in Carlton Coon's Multi-regional interpretation of human evolution.

The Kabwe/Broken Hill/Rhodesian Man skull aged almost 400 TY in less than 80 neo-Darwinist years on the planet.

[jcrawford]

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

Obviously.....

Yes, quite obviously, since the Egyptian pyramids are still standing along with the rest of us upright and erect Human beings.

[jcrawford]

Obviously, the flood must have occurred a few hundred years before the Babylonian diaspora and the arrival of the first immigrants in Egypt and the rest of Africa.

But the Oxford Illustrated History of Ancient Egypt starts at 750,000 BC.

Really! I didn't know that the Oxford Illustrated History of Ancient Egypt was that old.

When was the Flood, you say?

Sometime before Noah's descendents built Egyptian pyramids, Babylonian, Mesopotamian, Mayan and Aztec ziggurats and other ancient wonders of the Post-diluvial Age.

BTW, this same argument works for the Minoan, Mycanean, and other ancient civilizations. Even the buried ones do not seem to have left evidence of the flood.

That's only because dead fossils and dead human civilizations don't talk.