Would you worship an evil God?

[Jake]

I've heard atheists such as Matt Dillahunty (whom I greatly admire) claim that if they believed in the God of the Bible, who is obviously bloodthirsty and malevolent in many cases, they would refuse to worship him. But wouldn't you do anything to avoid eternal torment? Do any of you honestly claim that you would go to Hell before bowing to an evil God? If Hell were simply a place without God, as it is often described, that would be a different matter. But assuming Hell is a place of infinite pain, who would honestly let themselves be sent there? Even if you had to sacrifice your own child, wouldn't you obey God to avoid ultimate suffering?

[Wootah]

How can you trust an evil God that said do x to go to heaven. Why would an evil God build heaven?

[Jake]

I said I was referring to the God of the Bible. Yes, he is evil, but he still rewards obedience and worship. He has some twisted sense of justice. Don't side-step the question like that.

[Wootah]

I said I was referring to the God of the Bible. Yes, he is evil, but he still rewards obedience and worship. He has some twisted sense of justice. Don't side-step the question like that.

You will need to give specific examples so that we can discuss them.

It is hardly appropriate to draw conclusions after three posts.

I could imagine an evil being having to deceive good people by creating a fake bible but I can't see why an evil God would need to disguise himself as good.

[Jake]

He endorses slavery, accepts human sacrifice, promotes homophobia, and kills many people. All of these I would categorize as morally reprehensible. However I would still worship such a God if it meant I could avoid Hell.

[The Me's]

I've heard atheists such as Matt Dillahunty (whom I greatly admire) claim that if they believed in the God of the Bible, who is obviously bloodthirsty and malevolent in many cases, they would refuse to worship him. But wouldn't you do anything to avoid eternal torment? Do any of you honestly claim that you would go to Hell before bowing to an evil God? If Hell were simply a place without God, as it is often described, that would be a different matter. But assuming Hell is a place of infinite pain, who would honestly let themselves be sent there? Even if you had to sacrifice your own child, wouldn't you obey God to avoid ultimate suffering?

I've heard atheists say the same thing, and I've never seen a basis for the claim.

If you cherry pick the OT, you can make a case for whatever kind of deity you want God to be. But if you take the OT as a whole, the claim loses credibility.

(I would also have to question why atheists rely on the Bible to tell them what God is like when God himself is available for questioning. Common sense would dictate you go straight to the Man and see for yourself. If atheists pride themselves on being creatures of logic, why have they missed this one?)

[Jake]

I've heard atheists such as Matt Dillahunty (whom I greatly admire) claim that if they believed in the God of the Bible, who is obviously bloodthirsty and malevolent in many cases, they would refuse to worship him. But wouldn't you do anything to avoid eternal torment? Do any of you honestly claim that you would go to Hell before bowing to an evil God? If Hell were simply a place without God, as it is often described, that would be a different matter. But assuming Hell is a place of infinite pain, who would honestly let themselves be sent there? Even if you had to sacrifice your own child, wouldn't you obey God to avoid ultimate suffering?

I've heard atheists say the same thing, and I've never seen a basis for the claim.

If you cherry pick the OT, you can make a case for whatever kind of deity you want God to be. But if you take the OT as a whole, the claim loses credibility.

(I would also have to question why atheists rely on the Bible to tell them what God is like when God himself is available for questioning. Common sense would dictate you go straight to the Man and see for yourself. If atheists pride themselves on being creatures of logic, why have they missed this one?)

Because God is not actually available for questioning. The Bible is the source of information on the Christian deity. If you know of a method for contacting the real God, please, share.

And it isn't "cherry picking" to point out all the immoral acts of God throughout the Bible. Most humans go through life without murdering people. The humans that do murder people are held responsible, even if they are viewed as overall good people. It's not cherry picking to convict a good person of murder. Why do we judge God differently than we judge humans, especially if he is supposed to be the ultimate source of good in the world? He should be held to even higher standards than humans are held to.

[The Me's]

Because God is not actually available for questioning. The Bible is the source of information on the Christian deity. If you know of a method for contacting the real God, please, share.

And it isn't "cherry picking" to point out all the immoral acts of God throughout the Bible. Most humans go through life without murdering people. The humans that do murder people are held responsible, even if they are viewed as overall good people. It's not cherry picking to convict a good person of murder. Why do we judge God differently than we judge humans, especially if he is supposed to be the ultimate source of good in the world? He should be held to even higher standards than humans are held to.

About 1/3 of the world's population claims that God is available for questioning. I do it whenever the mood strikes.

It could be that you haven't tried.

And yes, it is cherry-picking. I can do the same thing by picking only verses that talk about forgiveness, charity, compassion and tolerance.

It's disingenous to take only the verses you like and leave the rest. You don't represent the actual writings when you do that.

[Wissing]

I think it's a leading question. I will abstain from voting. But I do want to make one point. I agree with the Me's that you have to take the whole thing into consideration. That still doesn't excuse acts of evil by God. However, I don't think it's the case that God has committed acts of evil. Take, for instance, Job (which I have broken down elsewhere). Surely, Jake, you'd think that God was evil for killing Job's family. You can probably cite various other instances of the "evil God". Here's the kicker - when you or I kill people, it's evil. When God does it, it's not. Double standard? Nope. Because God also let us tortue him to death. He walked the walk, so to speak. He also showed us that death is not the end. This shows that 1) he is a qualified servant leader. He does not ask innocents to endure any more suffering and death than he himself endured. Also, 2) when God takes an innocent life, it is for a reason. God gets to decide what to do with that soul. For God, death is not the end. According to his character throughout the OT and the NT, I don't think he would expose Job's wife to eternal torment.

[Jake]

Because God is not actually available for questioning. The Bible is the source of information on the Christian deity. If you know of a method for contacting the real God, please, share.

And it isn't "cherry picking" to point out all the immoral acts of God throughout the Bible. Most humans go through life without murdering people. The humans that do murder people are held responsible, even if they are viewed as overall good people. It's not cherry picking to convict a good person of murder. Why do we judge God differently than we judge humans, especially if he is supposed to be the ultimate source of good in the world? He should be held to even higher standards than humans are held to.

About 1/3 of the world's population claims that God is available for questioning. I do it whenever the mood strikes.

It could be that you haven't tried.

One glance at my usergroups would tell you I'm a former Christian. I tried for fourteen years. God has never revealed himself to me. If you'd like to share the experiences you believe you've had with God, please do. I'm curious to learn about how he communicates with humans.

And yes, it is cherry-picking. I can do the same thing by picking only verses that talk about forgiveness, charity, compassion and tolerance.

It's disingenous to take only the verses you like and leave the rest. You don't represent the actual writings when you do that.

The point is that acts of good do not excuse acts of evil. God commits many, many morally reprehensible acts throughout the Bible. Just because he also does good does not mean that he is not an evil deity.

I think it's a leading question. I will abstain from voting.

Of course it's a leading question, it was directed specifically at anyone who thinks the God of the Bible is evil. It wasn't meant to be a debate about whether or not God is in fact evil.

But I do want to make one point. I agree with the Me's that you have to take the whole thing into consideration. That still doesn't excuse acts of evil by God. However, I don't think it's the case that God has committed acts of evil. Take, for instance, Job (which I have broken down elsewhere). Surely, Jake, you'd think that God was evil for killing Job's family. You can probably cite various other instances of the "evil God".

I'd say the story of Job is an example of God acting immorally, yes.

Here's the kicker - when you or I kill people, it's evil. When God does it, it's not. Double standard? Nope. Because God also let us tortue him to death. He walked the walk, so to speak.

Um, no. I don't get to cut your leg off and then hand you an ax and offer you the chance to cut my leg off. That's not how it works. You don't get to harm people and then let them harm you and call it even.

He also showed us that death is not the end. This shows that 1) he is a qualified servant leader. He does not ask innocents to endure any more suffering and death than he himself endured.

False. He kills many many people and condemns many many people to lives of slavery. Does he allow himself to be killed every single time he kills someone? Has he lived out a life of slavery for every person that he has condemned to slavery? No. He let himself be executed ONCE. If we accept your twisted justice system, in which anyone can harm anyone as long as they themselves also undergo torture, then God has only earned the right to kill ONE person.

Also, 2) when God takes an innocent life, it is for a reason. God gets to decide what to do with that soul. For God, death is not the end. According to his character throughout the OT and the NT, I don't think he would expose Job's wife to eternal torment.

And what right does God have to decide what to do with people's lives and afterlives? I can have all the children I want, but I don't get to control their lives or kill them if I want to. Why do you judge God by a different standard? Do you not value human freedom whatsoever?