Catholic church admits parts of the bible aren't true

[noj]

Wow, just wow: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

and later on...

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

I feel like asking someone to pinch me incase i'm dreaming.

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

Like for example, a major world leader being told 'by god' to invade other countries.

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

I literally cannot describe how happy this makes me feel. Every time I mention my religion I feel like an asshole because of what (it sometimes seems) the rest of the world's Christians are doing in the name of the religion. But this... Its be like Bush turning round and admitting he screwed up and that he was going to drop taxes for low income workers. Its like getting a call from your principal apologising for the behaviour of that asshole techer who wouldn't cut you a break, and raising your grades. In short, it's the most god-damn brollic news i've had since hearing my brother won an xbox 360, and there is not a guitar in the world big enough for the solo I now want to bust out.

What do you guys think?

[The Happy Humanist]

What do you guys think?

Well, I sure don't want to turn down the volume on your guitar solo, but you may not want to plug in the amp just yet. It depends on the impact and/or fallout. First off, it's not going to come as a shock to anyone but Fundamentalists that the Bible contains inaccuracies. Obviously we knew that all along. It's a matter of who's saying it. The article says, THE Roman Catholic hierarchy, but it turns out to be a bunch of Bishops in an Anglican country. A pronouncement of this import would normally have to come from Papa Benny himself, and as the ultra-conservative former Grand Vizier of The Way Things Are, THAT would be news indeed. But wait...could this be a trial balloon? A release lower down in the echelon COULD mean that the Church is trying out a new policy to see if it gets shot down. If it survives at this level, it may be quietly adopted as "doctrinal." If it draws flak, the Holy See can always claim it was a bunch of renegade bishops.

So let's wait for the fallout.

[Jose]

What do you guys think?

It is quite refreshing. However, as HH says, it's not from the Head Cheese, so it remains to be seen whether all Catholics will start running around preaching the Doctrine of Non-Inerrancy.

I am particularly glad to see something we can point to, coming from people who really must be recognized as serious about their religion, making these kinds of statements. Many of us have been saying this all along, and probably most Catholics have simply recognized it as simply logical. But without the Deeply Religious taking a stand on it, we can be passed off as Hedonistic Liberal Atheists and Christian Pretenders.

The bit about fundamentalists being fundamentally dangerous is interesting...

Whaddyabet the response of the self-defined True Christians is that the Catholic church has finally gone over completely to the Dark Side?

[Cathar1950]

It is a little early to shout it from the roof tops. No telling how it will turn out. There could be a big back lash.
Jose wrote:

But without the Deeply Religious taking a stand on it, we can be passed off as Hedonistic Liberal Atheists and Christian Pretenders.

It would be refreshing that all scholarship not shouting the status quo giving it's due.

The bit about fundamentalists being fundamentally dangerous is interesting...

Whaddyabet the response of the self-defined True Christians is that the Catholic church has finally gone over completely to the Dark Side?

You are most likely right I am afraid. It is scary when God tells people to kill other people. If your dog starts talking like that you call it bad dog and send it outside. I see some book sales in the future. It makes me want to get on the band wagon and make enough to buy some interesting books.

[micatala]

Whaddyabet the response of the self-defined True Christians is that the Catholic church has finally gone over completely to the Dark Side?

I'm afraid I have to agree with Cathar's pessimistic diagnosis on this one. Many evangelicals already consider Catholics non-Christian and the pope the anti-Christ. When Charisma magazine, a periodical whose audience is largely evangelical, had a set of feature articles on the new pope, there was a ton of mail that came in castigating the magazine for the features and full of all sorts of negative and malicious comments about the pope, Catholicism, and even catholic lay people. As a former Catholic, I certainly have a lot of issues with the church, but it really saddens me to see this sort of attitude directed towards people, most of whom I think are trying to live as faithfully as they can according to their own consciences and traditions.

As far as the OP, I also find it encouraging but not exactly surprising.

On the other hand, I understand there is soon to come out a more official document prohibiting gay men from entering Catholic seminaries or the priesthood. A step backward in my book.

[Cathar1950]

I tend to agree with myself. I see a lot of Catholic bashing by the right yet at the same time in the USA they have many things in common. It will be interesting to see where this leads. At the same time I see praise for the Pope from people like Pat Roberstson and others..weird. I have my issues with the whole "church" from inside, Protestants included. If you want to find something wrong with any of them listen to them agree among themselves. In the last 50 years I would say scholarship has come a long way. We may know more about Christian beginnings then they knew in 100 CE. I just wonder when they are going to catch up. just because Constantine made everyone toss away and burn the good stuff doesn't mean we are stuck with it. I am just bitching.

[AlAyeti]

I'll try to be nice and let you all finish your beers and pay the hookers what they deserve. far be it from me to rain on yoor party.

These "Christians" have just eliminated Jesus from the Bible and created Him in your mythic guy. Understandable why some are so happy. No Adam no sin.

You know the second Adam, which Jesus is refered as!

That most of you anti-Christians are rejoicing at the only thing that you will hear is to be expected.

Revelation has to be expeunged because the Catholic Church may be its main character. Certainly the Mark of the Beast and the ever approaching electronic fund system can only relate to the future. And a near future it is!

How many new Catholics are being sought by this new revelation of this new revelation? A church dying from pedophiles within the ranks. They'll expunge scripture but not gay priests. Hmm? Why should we Bible literalists (Fundies) smell a rat?

This from the Church that put ex- Catholics on the rack until they saw the light again.

Bernie Ward,a famous radio personailty in the San Francisco Bay area,
a Jesuit trained whatever, holds the same views.

You can't see the sales pitch here?

I know you can't it's rhetorical.

Also with those new lib-Catholics comes a whole bunch of new kids!

[Cathar1950]

Not everyone believed in the second Adam or that Jesus was the second Adam. It seems funny but Paul took one myth and used it for a metaphor for another. I do not belive in the fall and find it to be rather unbiblical in the OT. The Greeks did have a golden age. There is nothing wrong with liberals.

[trencacloscas]

Every advance and discovery, be it scientific or technologic, was made against the Church and religion, no thanks to them. Normally, religion tends to hate science, for science does what their Gods can't. Explain things, cure sickness, make real miracles in their faces. Time passes, and they get so ridiculous that are forced to retreat. One day, all of a sudden, ¡light!... all the words written in stone and the lies for which they made people live horrible lives and die horrible deaths were just metaphores, not realities. Pure hypocrisy, just trying to pass the lie under a new form to the next generation of gullible and desperate believers.

[Jose]

You are too harsh, trencacloscas. While much of what you say is historically true, I dispute the notion that the role of the church was pure hypocrisy. For centuries, there just wasn't any other information available. That, after all, is where religion comes from in the first place. I suspect that a lot of the behavior of the past, that now seems so misguided, grew out of people's attempts to do the right thing. Unfortunately, they had a mythology rather than a medical text, so it didn't always work.

At the present time, it's harder to pass judgement. More is known overall, but the evidence screams at us that very little is known by most individuals. When faced with a choice between alternative explanations, where one is really complicated (evolution) and one is really easy (god did it), AND one has the benefit of promising everlasting life...well, gosh, which one would you choose? There's no hypocrisy here--just making decisions based on the information available at the time.

We could hope, probably futilely, that the church's admission will help more people see that biblical literalism is not such a good idea. It probably won't do so, though. The literalists have already branded the Catholics as apostates, so their new pronouncement will be no more than further evidence of their fall from grace.