Homosexuality

[razovor]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

[The Ex-Mormon]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

I think that these churches do not understand the biblical statements by themselves. So they said, that homosexuality would be in be in the eyes of God an "abomination"; but they do not know, however, the original meaning.
The Hebrew word which was translated as an "abomination" is called "to'ebah" (I use the linguistic German notation); which one is translated best by the Polynesian word "taboo". It does not describe any sin but something a good Jew does not do. It made him to enter not clean, the temple. Only by a ritual bath he was pure again.
Homosexual love relations by the way were never the topic in the Bible. It always was about temple prostitution, turn away from God and the Jewish people/tribe.

[dusk]

The only arguments I always read from these kind of people is that it is unnatural. You know like being left handed is unnatural which btw is also demonized in many religious texts

Some of those from the sexually disturbed abrahamic religions also argue that every form of pleasure outside a holy god sanctioned marriage is evil. Even inside a marriage it is not supposed to be pleasure only duty to procreate. Since god only recognizes only man and woman, gay people must live abstinent.
If one reduces sex only to procreation and regards all the fun part as evil and sinful, it is obvious why they think homosexuality is wrong. Conservative Catholic priest always fall into this bucket and Islamist obviously who are already scared of just having sinful thoughts, which is why their women must help them and run around as unappealing as possible.

I have yet to hear an argument why a secular law should deny same-sex marriage.

[preacher]

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.

and then Romans 1:26-32, basically saying the same thing, punishable by death.

bible's response to this issue couldn't be much more clearer, therefore it's a sin.

from human's point of view, well, can't really say that homosexuals are less civilized than heterosexuals. although I find it a little disturbing. why? well, you put it in the wrong hole, you know, E.Coli hole. So when I see a homo, I kept thinking about the E.coli. It's a little disgusting. Just like when I know someone rarely brush their teeth, I instinctively cover my nose with my hand. so it's more like hygiene thing. as for lesbians, well I don't see any hygiene problem.

in short, Jesus will throw you lesbians and gays to hell. Me? well, I'll just keep a little distance from homos (not because of prejudice or hate, but because hygiene problem), as for lesbians, I don;t think I have any problem.

[janavoss]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

From a Christian perspective, sin is not necessarily defined by utilitarian morals. Sin is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God, in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission" (definition from Easton's Bible Dictionary). Sin is not limited to those things that increase suffering in the world, although the two concepts do often overlap.
You are, of course, free to reject the notion that any law of any God exists; I'm not trying to convince anyone that there is such a thing, I am only responding to the post from a Christian perspective.

Homosexuality is a type of sexual sin, like adultery or orgies or any other sexual impurity. Sexual impurity has no place within the Christian church, as Paul teaches in Ephesians 5:3.
As far as the laws of the land go, at least in the U.S., there is no religious authority that has any power to define what is "right" or "legal" according to their particular set of scriptures. I have no objection to homosexual marriage as a constitutional right.
That does not mean I support homosexual behavior, any more than I support adultery or promiscuity, or any other sin that I believe will only lead people further from God. I do not "hate" people who engage in such sin, and I do not deny anyone the right to choose to do anything they want so long as they are not infringing on the rights of someone else. But I cannot endorse sin.

[connermt]

I was wondering if anyone who considers homosexuality a sin, could tell me what is wrong with it.

I'm talking in the sense of utilitarian morals. How does homosexual intercourse, or homosexual marriage, increase the suffering in the world?

Anything that contradicts the narrow mind of the christian cult, is considered a "sin". And these "sins" change over time.
It's amazing that people still today can't see christianity for what it has become today.
Amazing and sad at the same time.

[The Ex-Mormon]

The only arguments I always read from these kind of people is that it is unnatural. You know like being left handed is unnatural which btw is also demonized in many religious texts

Some of those from the sexually disturbed abrahamic religions also argue that every form of pleasure outside a holy god sanctioned marriage is evil. Even inside a marriage it is not supposed to be pleasure only duty to procreate. Since god only recognizes only man and woman, gay people must live abstinent.
If one reduces sex only to procreation and regards all the fun part as evil and sinful, it is obvious why they think homosexuality is wrong. Conservative Catholic priest always fall into this bucket and Islamist obviously who are already scared of just having sinful thoughts, which is why their women must help them and run around as unappealing as possible.

I have yet to hear an argument why a secular law should deny same-sex marriage.

Which words Paul used is interesting. Because nothing had to do at "natural" and "unnatural" with nature. But with the "nature" concerned to a person. To use your example: For a left-handed person it is unnatural to do something with the right hand; not however for a right-handed person.

[The Ex-Mormon]

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.

and then Romans 1:26-32, basically saying the same thing, punishable by death.

This just does not say the Bible! I recommend you to deal with the original text and the context a little more exactly. It could work as a revelation for you.

[preacher]

@Ex Mormon:
you're talking about the Hebrew text? okay, can you give me the original Hebrew text of those passages? I'll try to confirm this. I'm using new king james version. as for context, I don;t think the passages were out of context regarding this issue. Thank you

[dusk]

Which words Paul used is interesting. Because nothing had to do at "natural" and "unnatural" with nature. But with the "nature" concerned to a person. To use your example: For a left-handed person it is unnatural to do something with the right hand; not however for a right-handed person.

Sure but it is utilitarian secular laws that are discussed in the public discourse and saying it is JUST bad no reason given is not going to work. So they have to come up with something for why it is justified to discriminated against gays simply because they think god wants them too, without looking like twisted hypocritical a-holes.
The Nazis and British also had all kinds of weird arguments for why black people are supposed to be below us, do not deserver the same rights as we grant white people and so on.
I think the natural or unnatural the Christians bring up because they somehow believe that makes it a good argument in a secular universe or one that non Christians would respond to. Certainly all those that had funny race arguments like these kind.

The bible and Jesus simply wanted Children to be born to people that give something about them and provide for them. Lacking any contraception they banned all extramartial activities from act and though. So orgies also got under the hammer and to really quench it completely they argued also against all sorts of just for fun stuff, even just dressing the wrong way. It got a little out of hand and just like with computer tutorial because they don't give proper reasons nobody really gets what it is that is important. I think the Bible is a really poor attempt on communicating timeless ideas.