Why choose one?

[Nirvana-Eld]

Ok the basic question is this. If God was trying to reveal himself to a people, wouldn't it make sense to reveal himself according to their culture? It doesn't make sense to deny all religions but your own. Any thoughts? (and I don't want any "no the bible says so" cause so does the Koran and the Torah and the Mormons and almost everyone else.)

[ST88]

The problem you have is that God would be rerevealing himself to all those other cultures. Your thesis seems to be that God created all those people, then left them alone for a long time to ferment into their own cultures, and then reveal himself as their creator. Why the diversity? Wouldn't God want people to worship him in a specific way? Instead of, say, throwing virgins into volcanos in one place and cutting the heads off youngsters while they danced in another place?

[Dilettante]

Actually, it does make a lot of sense to deny other religions except your own, because all can't be right. Religions often contradict each other. It may be tempting to think that all religions are basically the same, but upon closer inspection we discover they aren't. If God had revealed himself to all peoples simultaneously, most likely there would be just one religion. Or are you suggesting that originally there was one single religion which later degenerated into thousands of different ones? That would be an interesting (but unsupported) hypothesis, akin to the myth of the Tower of Babel.

[Bugmaster]

Actually, it does make a lot of sense to deny other religions except your own, because all can't be right. Religions often contradict each other. It may be tempting to think that all religions are basically the same, but upon closer inspection we discover they aren't.

Agreed, and I think that most people -- atheists and christians included -- underestimate how true this really is.

In America, most people tend to assume that the word "religion" means "Christianity, Judaism, or Islam". And indeed, these three religions are somewhat similar, since they share common roots. However, there are many other religions out there, with radically different beliefs.

The Hindu believe in a multitude of gods, whose relationships are very complex, and who don't give out commandments on stone tablets, at all. The Buddhists believe in karma, and the wheel of death and rebirth. The Wiccans believe in some gods, but the gods are really secondary to their Threefold Rule, and the human power to cast spells. The Hare Krishnas believe that the entire Universe is God. The Scientologists believe in science fiction.

Christians believe that God commands them to wosrhip him alone, and to turn the other cheek when appropriate, so that they can be let into Heaven. Buddhists believe that the highest state one can strive for is Nirvana, a state of total non-existence. The Hindu believe in something similar, I think, through perfection of the mind and body. The Hare Krishans believe in joining with the universal consciousness, losing their individuality in the universuum. The Wiccans believe that whatever you do will be repaid to you three times, in this life and not the next, so you'd better be careful with that toe of frog. Scientologists believe in shelling out money for spiritual training.

These religions (and many others !) can't all possibly be right. They contradict each other, and many of them have nothing at all in common.

[Arya]

Actually, it does make a lot of sense to deny other religions except your own, because all can't be right. Religions often contradict each other. It may be tempting to think that all religions are basically the same, but upon closer inspection we discover they aren't.

Agreed, and I think that most people -- atheists and christians included -- underestimate how true this really is.

In America, most people tend to assume that the word "religion" means "Christianity, Judaism, or Islam". And indeed, these three religions are somewhat similar, since they share common roots. However, there are many other religions out there, with radically different beliefs.

The Hindu believe in a multitude of gods, whose relationships are very complex, and who don't give out commandments on stone tablets, at all. The Buddhists believe in karma, and the wheel of death and rebirth. The Wiccans believe in some gods, but the gods are really secondary to their Threefold Rule, and the human power to cast spells. The Hare Krishnas believe that the entire Universe is God. The Scientologists believe in science fiction.

Christians believe that God commands them to wosrhip him alone, and to turn the other cheek when appropriate, so that they can be let into Heaven. Buddhists believe that the highest state one can strive for is Nirvana, a state of total non-existence. The Hindu believe in something similar, I think, through perfection of the mind and body. The Hare Krishans believe in joining with the universal consciousness, losing their individuality in the universuum. The Wiccans believe that whatever you do will be repaid to you three times, in this life and not the next, so you'd better be careful with that toe of frog. Scientologists believe in shelling out money for spiritual training.

These religions (and many others !) can't all possibly be right. They contradict each other, and many of them have nothing at all in common.

I agree with you that there are many contradictions between the different religions that currently exist. It does not seem possible that all can be correct.

But perhaps it is not so much that all have to be correct 100% of the time. Perhaps what is more important in this case is whether or not a particular religion feels correct to the individual that practices it? In other words, if a person decides or feels deep within themselves that a particular religion's belief system is "correct" to them, shouldn't that be all that matters? I am speaking in the sense where that belief does not harm the beliefs or lifestyles of another person, culture, or religion.

[Bugmaster]

But perhaps it is not so much that all have to be correct 100% of the time. Perhaps what is more important in this case is whether or not a particular religion feels correct to the individual that practices it? In other words, if a person decides or feels deep within themselves that a particular religion's belief system is "correct" to them, shouldn't that be all that matters? I am speaking in the sense where that belief does not harm the beliefs or lifestyles of another person, culture, or religion.

Matters for what ? I agree that people should be free to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't harm others, but religions make some very specific claims, and if you believe in the wrong religion, you could be in trouble. For example, if Judaism is true, then everyone who's ever eaten a ham-n-cheese sandwich is in deep, deep trouble. On the other hand, if Christianity is true, then the Jews are the ones who are in trouble.

It would seem that religion does indeed matter, unless you're willing to assume that all religions are equally false.

Furthermore, some deeply religious people, such as many Muslims and some Christian fundamentalists, believe that hurting others is not only acceptable, but required, as long as those others are infidels. They believe in this as deeply as conventional Christians believe in loving one's neighbour. Again, this is a case where truth or falsity of a particular religion matters a great deal.

[Arya]

But perhaps it is not so much that all have to be correct 100% of the time. Perhaps what is more important in this case is whether or not a particular religion feels correct to the individual that practices it? In other words, if a person decides or feels deep within themselves that a particular religion's belief system is "correct" to them, shouldn't that be all that matters? I am speaking in the sense where that belief does not harm the beliefs or lifestyles of another person, culture, or religion.

Matters for what ? I agree that people should be free to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't harm others, but religions make some very specific claims, and if you believe in the wrong religion, you could be in trouble. For example, if Judaism is true, then everyone who's ever eaten a ham-n-cheese sandwich is in deep, deep trouble. On the other hand, if Christianity is true, then the Jews are the ones who are in trouble.

It would seem that religion does indeed matter, unless you're willing to assume that all religions are equally false.

Furthermore, some deeply religious people, such as many Muslims and some Christian fundamentalists, believe that hurting others is not only acceptable, but required, as long as those others are infidels. They believe in this as deeply as conventional Christians believe in loving one's neighbour. Again, this is a case where truth or falsity of a particular religion matters a great deal.

Yes, religion does matter indeed. And it is very unfortunate that certain religions feel that "matters" to such an extent that it is perfectly acceptable to hurt others that are referred to as "infedels".

With the exception of "extremist" religions, many religions contrast greatly from one another, but that doesn't necessarily make any of them "incorrect" or "wrong" or even "correct" for all people on this planet. Those specific religions may simply feel "correct" to the individuals who have chosen to follow one.

[Bugmaster]

With the exception of "extremist" religions, many religions contrast greatly from one another, but that doesn't necessarily make any of them "incorrect" or "wrong" or even "correct" for all people on this planet. Those specific religions may simply feel "correct" to the individuals who have chosen to follow one.

But religions make truth claims that are universal. Here are some examples:

* If you eat pork, you cannot enter Heaven
* If you kill infidels, you get a higher reward in Heaven
* Succumbing to any desires whatsoever will prolong your spiritual torture on the wheel of death and rebirth
* Spells work
* You should not eat meat on Friday, if you know what's good for you

These, and many other claims, apply to everyone. If Wicca is false, and you're a Wiccan, then you're wasting time with all those spells. If Judaism is true, and you're a Christian, then you're in for a nasty surprise in the afterlife for eating all those ham-n-cheese sandwiches.

It's not a matter "this feels good to me, so I'll do it" -- the stakes are higher than that.

[Arya]

With the exception of "extremist" religions, many religions contrast greatly from one another, but that doesn't necessarily make any of them "incorrect" or "wrong" or even "correct" for all people on this planet. Those specific religions may simply feel "correct" to the individuals who have chosen to follow one.

But religions make truth claims that are universal. Here are some examples:

* If you eat pork, you cannot enter Heaven
* If you kill infidels, you get a higher reward in Heaven
* Succumbing to any desires whatsoever will prolong your spiritual torture on the wheel of death and rebirth
* Spells work
* You should not eat meat on Friday, if you know what's good for you

These, and many other claims, apply to everyone. If Wicca is false, and you're a Wiccan, then you're wasting time with all those spells. If Judaism is true, and you're a Christian, then you're in for a nasty surprise in the afterlife for eating all those ham-n-cheese sandwiches.

It's not a matter "this feels good to me, so I'll do it" -- the stakes are higher than that.

Aaaah, yes most religions do make claims that their specific viewpoints or beliefs are universal. It does not mean that they are correct in that assumption. It makes those beliefs correct for those who choose to follow those specific beliefs within that particular religion.

I do not believe that for those who do not happen to follow or practice a particular religion will suffer the "consequences" for doing so. For example, say if you or I have eaten pork, or continue to eat pork, that does not mean that we will not get into heaven simply because we did not follow a particular method or belief. Others may believe differently, and they are entitled to their opinions.

But what if I did something that specifically went against my spiritual beliefs? Say for instance that I am a Christian, and I murdered someone out of cold blood. Since I have broken one of the commandments, I would believe that I would not get into heaven for my actions. That is an extreme example, but I would be much more likely to believe I would have to pay for my sins in this instance since I am following what I may believe to be true. But I would not think twice about eating pork, or doing other activities that are not against my particular beliefs for I do not feel that it is wrong to do so.

[Bugmaster]

Aaaah, yes most religions do make claims that their specific viewpoints or beliefs are universal. It does not mean that they are correct in that assumption. It makes those beliefs correct for those who choose to follow those specific beliefs within that particular religion.

Ok, let's say I'm a Wiccan. I sincerely believe that I can make plants grow with my mind. Does this mean that I can actually grow plants with my mind ?

Let's say that I'm a Christian. I believe that I'll go to Heaven after I die. My neighbour is a Muslim, and he believes I'll go to Hell. When I die, where do I go ?

I do not believe that for those who do not happen to follow or practice a particular religion will suffer the "consequences" for doing so. For example, say if you or I have eaten pork, or continue to eat pork, that does not mean that we will not get into heaven simply because we did not follow a particular method or belief. Others may believe differently, and they are entitled to their opinions.

How do you know you're right, and they're wrong ?