Not a 'Devil' Advocate

[Deadclown]

I was talking with my gf and the 'Devil' movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1314655/) came up. These sorts of films really annoy me more and more the longer I am an atheist and she knows it, so likes to mess with me. Here's the quote from the preview that got my eyes rolling from the get go.

Ramirez: Everybody believes in him a little bit, even guys like you who pretend they don't.

Atheists in the movies are often portrayed the same way. They are really just lapsed religious people who had some horrible event in their past cause them to 'reject' God. Usually they just need a lil something to get them back on the bandwagon. This goes a good ways towards showing that non-theists are generally portrayed pretty poorly in the movies. In fact, this is a trope referred to as the 'Hollywood Atheist'.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... oodAtheist

Questions for the Topic: (Pretty much solidly opinion based. I am not sure theists will have a lot to weigh in, since I assume you all aren't bothered by it, but by all means go nuts.) Is anyone else annoyed by this stuff as much as me or am I just being crazy? Can you also not even enjoy films like this? Can anyone think of more examples of movies like this or even movies that actually represent atheists well? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is 'Contact'.

[McCulloch]

Hey, Hollywood misrepresents the religious too. And history. And veterans. And technology. And people from the middle east. And the legal system. And gays. And feminists. And Canadians. And the Right. And the Left.

What was the point again?

[Deadclown]

Hey, Hollywood misrepresents the religious too. And history. And veterans. And technology. And people from the middle east. And the legal system. And gays. And feminists. And Canadians. And the Right. And the Left.

What was the point again?

Touche. So that's a no you're being crazy out of you? I don't know or have a lot of friends who are atheists, and so don't know if my reaction is normal at all. You seem to think that it isn't. I am just curious what other people's opinions are.

There are a lot of movies that try to get history right. There are a ton of pro-religious movies. Lots of movies that try to get wars correct and are respectful to veterans. There are a lot of movies that try to at least get their pseudo science sounding good or try to be respectful to the Middle East, homosexuals, Canadians, liberals, and conservatives.

I can imagine there being a lot of frowning upon mainstream belittling of homosexuals, veterans, and religious groups. The standard with non-theists appears to be the Hollywood atheist and I am curious if that is just my perception. Like a persecution complex that I need to get over, or is there anything to it?

[McCulloch]

I suspect that Hollywood gets most of the atheists down just fine. We don't normally talk about religion and we behave as most of the nominal Christians do, as if there is no God.

OK, I do get annoyed how they portray those who publicly admit to being atheist as lapsed frustrated theists. And I'm still waiting for them to honestly and sensitively portray a serious atheist. But with front-men like Chris Hitchens or Bill Maher, we might be a long time waiting.

The debater in my feels compelled to point out the false dichotomy: Is anyone else annoyed by this stuff as much as me or am I just being crazy? Even if other people are annoyed by this stuff, you might still be crazy.

[Deadclown]

I suspect that Hollywood gets most of the atheists down just fine. We don't normally talk about religion and we behave as most of the nominal Christians do, as if there is no God.

That is a very good point. Maybe the best portrayals of atheists are the ones when religion never comes up at all, or is only very briefly mentioned as just a meaningless detail to a greater unrelated story.

OK, I do get annoyed how they portray those who publicly admit to being atheist as lapsed frustrated theists. And I'm still waiting for them to honestly and sensitively portray a serious atheist. But with front-men like Chris Hitchens or Bill Maher, we might be a long time waiting.

Very true, and thank you for your opinion.

The debater in my feels compelled to point out the false dichotomy: Is anyone else annoyed by this stuff as much as me or am I just being crazy? Even if other people are annoyed by this stuff, you might still be crazy.

That is quite right and the debater in me appreciates you pointing it out. I apologize for the bad phrasing. I could always have a persecution complex, even if people agree with me. It is why I was curious if there was a lot of contradictory evidence I wasn't seeing (movies I didn't think of that prove me wrong).

I think that as you say, there is some cause for my feelings, but I might be over thinking it when I should just relax. I can see how in any movie that presupposes the supernatural existing how a Hollywood Atheist would be a useful (albeit personally annoying) plot device.

[Baz]

If you think about it, in a film, book or story, anybody who disbelieves the existence of one of the character must be proved wrong if the character is to be believed. (You can’t have much of a zombie film if ten minutes in the existence of zombies is disproved) I find to get the most from any experience it’s best to go with it so far as you can but if it’s not your thing its’ either a stretch or just doesn’t work at all. I don’t see a problem from an entertainment point of view to be asked to believe thing like aliens speaking English and police actually turning up the same day when you call in a robbery.


If you’re not looking for imagination best to stay with documentaries.