Why dont you belive Jesus Christ died for our sins,And,The Missiah is coming back?
Can you guys please explain that??
athesis
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rapture101
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Post #2
I will be pleased to discuss this further with you, but first I'd like to share a quote with you. This quote from The Urantia Book, paper 188 section 4 says it better than I could hope to.
Bro Dave
THE MEANING OF THE DEATH ON THE CROSS
...Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Earth has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the "World of the Cross."
Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Earth. Death
is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In
your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false
interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master's death.
Mortal man was never the property of the arch-deceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evildoing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master's death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.
Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in
believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.
The animal nature--the tendency toward evildoing--may be hereditary, but
sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and
deliberate rebellion against the Father's will and the Sons' laws by an
individual will creature.
Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this
one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Earth, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.
Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer,
or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever
made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the Universe.
When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only
concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency,
utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.
All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and
grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one's fellows is the
highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be
taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The
believer's chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal
salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one's
fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.
Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future
punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present
separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.
Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which
justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish
scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.
The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the
enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.
This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a
plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is
real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature's
faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be "forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors."
Bro Dave
THE MEANING OF THE DEATH ON THE CROSS
...Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Earth has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the "World of the Cross."
Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Earth. Death
is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In
your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false
interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master's death.
Mortal man was never the property of the arch-deceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evildoing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master's death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.
Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in
believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.
The animal nature--the tendency toward evildoing--may be hereditary, but
sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and
deliberate rebellion against the Father's will and the Sons' laws by an
individual will creature.
Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this
one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Earth, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.
Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer,
or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever
made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the Universe.
When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only
concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency,
utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.
All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and
grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one's fellows is the
highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be
taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The
believer's chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal
salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one's
fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.
Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future
punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present
separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.
Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which
justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish
scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.
The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the
enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.
This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a
plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is
real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature's
faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be "forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors."
Post #3
Certainly.Why dont you belive Jesus Christ died for our sins,And,The Missiah is coming back?
Can you guys please explain that??
Why don't you believe Muhammad was the prophet of god?
Why don't you belief Joseph Smith was inspired by god to fix the bible?
Why don't you believe what the Jews believe?
Why don't you give offerings to the Roman gods?
Basically, all the reasons I'm going to get against those 4 questions, are the reasons I don't believe in your religion.
Secondly, I am of the personal opinion that the JC story is silly.
God decides there is sin.
God decides everyone has sin.
God decides that he needs to send himself to die to change his mind about a rule that he created so that he can tell himself the sin can be forgiven.
On top of this, your god is all powerful and all good could simply say, "You know what, from now on, no more sin for anyone." but decided instead to go the route of the barbarian blood sacrifice.
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air...we need believing people."
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933]
Post #4
I never thought about it.... Damn, you really opened my mind Rapture. This entire new world ha suddenly opened for me. I can now embrace it.. I will embrace it, could you give me the information i need to accept Jesus Christ? And, ofcourse, Mohammed, Buddha, Hindi.... As i cant just chose one of these, i should explore all of them. Should i not ?Why dont you belive Jesus Christ died for our sins,And,The Missiah is coming back?
Can you guys please explain that??
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rapture101
- Student
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- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:30 pm
- Location: Ameila Island
Post #5
LillSnopp,
I take it your being sarcastic.
But if you really want to know how to except Christ here some info,
Did you know that you were created to have a loving relationship with God? He is patiently and lovingly waiting for you to respond to His invitation to salvation. Yes, you can receive forgiveness for your sins and assurance of eternal life through faith in His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:16-17). "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3).
You may be asking yourself: "How can I know God?" Man is able to know the true and living God through His Word (that is, the Bible). The Bible reveals God's character and His plan for mankind. It is through reading His Word that we come to a knowledge of the righteousness of God and that which He requires of us.
What is it that prevents us from personally knowing God? Our sin has separated us from God — our corruption is to such a degree that we cannot know Him personally and cannot experience His love. God's Word says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Man was created to have fellowship with God, but because of his sin (i.e., anything that is against the righteousness revealed in God's Law) he is prevented from that fellowship. This includes anything less than perfect obedience to God's commands.
"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23a). The ultimate result of this death is an eternity in Hell. This spiritual death forces a separation from God. Man is sinful and God is holy. This creates a gulf unbridgeable by man making that intended fellowship impossible. The only solution is a divine bridge — that bridge is Christ.
God created a way by sending His Son to pay the price for our sin. "God demonstrated His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). He died in our place; He who knew no sin became sin for us. This removed our burden of sin and allows us to enter into that desired fellowship if we follow His way.
He is the only way. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).
It is not just enough that you know these truths. We must individually place our trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is by repenting of our sins and believing on Christ that we can know God personally and experience His love.
"But as many as receive Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10).
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
You can receive Jesus Christ right now by faith. "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).
If you now believe on God and place your faith in His Son, congratulations — and welcome to His family. We, all being His children, share in a heavenly inheritance! We are heirs to heaven and are promised the eternal pleasure of glorifying God. As our life here on earth progresses, God will continue to work in our hearts. We are daily being conformed to the image of Christ, Himself. We will begin to live lives of righteousness. Obedience to God will not be a burden to us, but rather a joy.
You may wonder, now that you are a Christian, "What now?" Our greatest recommendation for believers, new and old, is fourfold: 1) find a church so you might hear the preaching of the Word and rejoice in the fellowship of other Christians, 2) study the Bible for that is where we learn of God and His plans, 3) pray to Him to strengthen your faith and increase your love toward Him, and 4) enjoy the blessings given by God in the heavenly ordained sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. All of these will work to encourage and build upon your faith. If you have any questions, search the Scriptures.
Now you might not belive it .But its some good info.Maby take it to heart.
I take it your being sarcastic.
But if you really want to know how to except Christ here some info,
Did you know that you were created to have a loving relationship with God? He is patiently and lovingly waiting for you to respond to His invitation to salvation. Yes, you can receive forgiveness for your sins and assurance of eternal life through faith in His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:16-17). "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3).
You may be asking yourself: "How can I know God?" Man is able to know the true and living God through His Word (that is, the Bible). The Bible reveals God's character and His plan for mankind. It is through reading His Word that we come to a knowledge of the righteousness of God and that which He requires of us.
What is it that prevents us from personally knowing God? Our sin has separated us from God — our corruption is to such a degree that we cannot know Him personally and cannot experience His love. God's Word says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Man was created to have fellowship with God, but because of his sin (i.e., anything that is against the righteousness revealed in God's Law) he is prevented from that fellowship. This includes anything less than perfect obedience to God's commands.
"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23a). The ultimate result of this death is an eternity in Hell. This spiritual death forces a separation from God. Man is sinful and God is holy. This creates a gulf unbridgeable by man making that intended fellowship impossible. The only solution is a divine bridge — that bridge is Christ.
God created a way by sending His Son to pay the price for our sin. "God demonstrated His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). He died in our place; He who knew no sin became sin for us. This removed our burden of sin and allows us to enter into that desired fellowship if we follow His way.
He is the only way. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).
It is not just enough that you know these truths. We must individually place our trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is by repenting of our sins and believing on Christ that we can know God personally and experience His love.
"But as many as receive Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10).
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
You can receive Jesus Christ right now by faith. "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).
If you now believe on God and place your faith in His Son, congratulations — and welcome to His family. We, all being His children, share in a heavenly inheritance! We are heirs to heaven and are promised the eternal pleasure of glorifying God. As our life here on earth progresses, God will continue to work in our hearts. We are daily being conformed to the image of Christ, Himself. We will begin to live lives of righteousness. Obedience to God will not be a burden to us, but rather a joy.
You may wonder, now that you are a Christian, "What now?" Our greatest recommendation for believers, new and old, is fourfold: 1) find a church so you might hear the preaching of the Word and rejoice in the fellowship of other Christians, 2) study the Bible for that is where we learn of God and His plans, 3) pray to Him to strengthen your faith and increase your love toward Him, and 4) enjoy the blessings given by God in the heavenly ordained sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. All of these will work to encourage and build upon your faith. If you have any questions, search the Scriptures.
Now you might not belive it .But its some good info.Maby take it to heart.
Romans 5:8 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life with Jesus Christ our lord!!!~!!!
Post #6
No, i did not.Did you know that you were created to have a loving relationship with God?
He is patiently and lovingly waiting for you to respond to His invitation to salvation.
I am really not interested in his invitation. I manage.
I have not sinned, so this is not valid for me. Do i have to sin to not be forced to life eternaly? I prefer just being dead, when i die.Yes, you can receive forgiveness for your sins and assurance of eternal life through faith in His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
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rapture101
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Post #8
The bible says so.god loves you no matter what dont be fooled
Romans 5:8 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life with Jesus Christ our lord!!!~!!!
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rapture101
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- Location: Ameila Island
Post #10
if you approach something in a negitive manner it will most likly be negitive.
Romans 5:8 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life with Jesus Christ our lord!!!~!!!
