Natural Man: A Product Within Our Mind

[Kuan]

Bear with me on this because I might have a different view on this than many. I dont know what other christians think of the natural man but I was in a debate were empathy and emotions were brought up. A person mentioned that empathy and selfishness were products of our mind.

Is it possible that this is what the bible referred to when dealing with the natural man? Overcoming our selfish desires and becoming empathetic?

[Darias]

Bear with me on this because I might have a different view on this than many. I dont know what other christians think of the natural man but I was in a debate were empathy and emotions were brought up. A person mentioned that empathy and selfishness were products of our mind.

Is it possible that this is what the bible referred to when dealing with the natural man? Overcoming our selfish desires and becoming empathetic?

Well, even though ancient authors of the Bible did not understand psychology, I'm sure they've always been aware of human behaviors such as selfishness(from need or want) and generosity(from empathy and love).

Speaking from strictly secular/evolutionary reasoning, both of these traits survive in humans because both have helped the survival of our species as a whole.

All humans are capable of both behaviors because both seem to be natural products of the human brain. And in real life we see that there are selfish people and selfless people out there.

Obviously in an ever globalizing world, where multiculturalism increases and borders shrink -- ideas and religions come into conflict...

In order for humans to survive in a full planet like this one, we have to learn how to get along. Children should be raised , not only to fear punishment from breaking the rules or disobeying parents or breaking the law -- but they should be given a sense of empathy and compassion for others.

Someone raised to fear authority can always get over fear of punishment, especially if they can get away with it.

Someone who's empathy has been nurtured -- regardless of fear of being caught and punished, will know when something is wrong because they wouldn't want it to be done to themselves.

That's why people who rob gas stations, for the most part, don't care about their victims, they just want to get away with the money. (there are exceptions - like if someone is starving and has no choice but to rob from someone to eat).

And there are other variables -- like people who have mental disorders (disorders which specifically inhibit any sense of empathy).

But, anyways, that's my natural defense of why nurturing empathy is good for mankind as a whole -- it leads to more good being done in the world -- whereas selfishness (not really)

My ideas about this developed after watching a video link in Lucia's signature.

Now after watching most of the related videos from RSA Animate, I realized that there are Marxist (not Communist[yes there's a difference]) overtones -- which suggest that mankind just needs to embrace their natural class consciousness (love for one another to the point where we all just work for free and everyone gets what they need).

I don't believe that all of humanity is naturally good - or bad. It's both. Marx's "Class consciousness" is BS as far as I'm concerned.

But humans aren't all evil horrible no good people either -- obviously.

And capitalism isn't to blame for all human ills.... again obviously.

But again, I stand by my reasoning, that it is logical that empathy should become more prevalent in our society. This will lead to more pluralism, more good being done in the world, less injustice, etc.

I mean if everyone cared more for others and less for themselves all the time -- you'd think there'd be less war and genocide right?

But obviously that won't happen naturally without some sort of moral instruction, and some sort of universal moral teaching -- like human rights (non-religious values).

Of course, some will argue that because morals are relative(from culture to culture) that all morals are equally valuable --

And what that blanketed statement fails to account for is murder, genital mutilation, subjugation of women, and genocide.

If those things are happening in a society, then from my subjective, but logical view point - such things are wrong.

My only source of total objective authority for my position would be God -- but of course lots of people don't believe in God, let alone my idea of god(which borrows a lot from mainstream theistic ideas).

The tricky thing is trying to create a logical objective basis for doing good -- and that's what I've tried to do.

I know that non-theists do good all the time, but all of us (religious or not) should have a logical objective reason for doing good aside from our own jollies or beliefs/dis-beliefs in God.

And for me that boils down to the empathic nature of human beings. It's our nature to do good -- it's our responsibility to do good -- fellow human beings who have pain like us shouldn't have to starve when we have plenty of food -- etc.

It's logical, it's natural, it's spiritual. So let's go do some good, instead of sitting around debating and deconstructing philosophical notions of "good."