Pharmacists Dispensing Morality

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ST88
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Pharmacists Dispensing Morality

Post #1

Post by ST88 »

A Law proposed in the Tennessee State Legislature would allow pharmacists the right not to dispense a drug if they had religious or ethical objections to it. The obvious candidates are birth control pills and morning after pills, but the law would apply to any drug or combination of drugs.

The law currently allows pharmacists the right not to provide drugs as they see fit -- as in the case of a mistaken prescription from a doctor. However:
The [American Pharmacists Association] had a policy for years that allows pharmacists to refuse to fill a prescription, but it requires them to make some accommodation for the patient to get the drug. Either they call in another pharmacist within the store or send the prescription to another drugstore to be filled, said Susan Winckler with the APA in Washington.
This law would do away with that requirement in the face of certain laws in other states that would mandate that pharmacists dispense the drugs that a patient came in for.

The actual law in question has a narrower focus, but it brings up some interesting issues.

Questions:
1. Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to dispense otherwise legal drugs based on religious and/or ethical grounds?

2. Doctors have the right not to perform procedures they have ethical objections to. Is medicine a special category in this case, or are there other professions where these issues might apply?

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Post #2

Post by BeHereNow »

Questions:
1. Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to dispense otherwise legal drugs based on religious and/or ethical grounds?

I’ll express my free market inclinations and say yes on an economical basis. Let the market decide if there is a commercial need.
If the next wonder diet pill is made out of pork fat, pharmacists of certain religions might have objections to touching the pills to count them out. Possibly even to sell them.
The pharmacy owner needs protected in some way too. If most of his business is Pork Fat Power Off he should be able to hire the pharmacists who are able and willing to serve his customer base (without fear of discrimination complaints). If the pharmacist is self employed, it makes it easier. Or so I will assume.

2. Doctors have the right not to perform procedures they have ethical objections to. Is medicine a special category in this case, or are there other professions where these issues might apply?

Photographers ‘screen” their jobs based on many criteria. Morality could be one.

I buy meat from a butcher who will not cut pig. Mostly he does venison and beef cattle. I asked him why no pigs. He just said it was his choice. I suspect it is a sanitary thing (trichinosis) as I know the church he attends and there is no morality issue (but there could be, in another case).

Lawyers often specialize in certain areas of the law. Morality could be a limiting issue.

Fruit growers choose the vegetables they deal in. If eggplants have an evil nature, a grower could refuse to deal in them. He should be allowed.

In general, I avoid advocating limiting of personal freedom. I would think in this case the freedom of the pharmacist to restrict his merchandise would not seriously restrict the freedom of the public in general. The free market would see to it that there was adequate availability.

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Post #3

Post by ST88 »

BeHereNow wrote:I’ll express my free market inclinations and say yes on an economical basis. Let the market decide if there is a commercial need.
If the next wonder diet pill is made out of pork fat, pharmacists of certain religions might have objections to touching the pills to count them out. Possibly even to sell them.
The pharmacy owner needs protected in some way too. If most of his business is Pork Fat Power Off he should be able to hire the pharmacists who are able and willing to serve his customer base (without fear of discrimination complaints). If the pharmacist is self employed, it makes it easier. Or so I will assume.
Diet pills are one thing. Birth control is quite another.

In effect, the pharmacist is little more than a delivery device for the medicine that a doctor prescribes. They are administrators. That they have become a huge industry unto themselves says more about how our health economy works.

I agree that this is partly a free market issue. but there are areas of this country where the density of pharmacists is significantly lower than average. Is it OK to make the patient drive an hour or more to get to the next pill dispensary when the one near his/her house refuses on religious grounds? For that matter, is it OK to make them drive five minutes to find someone else? Often it is the case that a health plan will only cover drugs dispensed from specific pharmacies. Is it OK that someone would have to pay more for the same drug because of this? Whose rights should be protected more, the right of the pharmacist to refuse or the right of the patient to receive?
BeHereNow wrote:2. Doctors have the right not to perform procedures they have ethical objections to. Is medicine a special category in this case, or are there other professions where these issues might apply?

Photographers ‘screen” their jobs based on many criteria. Morality could be one.

I buy meat from a butcher who will not cut pig. Mostly he does venison and beef cattle. I asked him why no pigs. He just said it was his choice. I suspect it is a sanitary thing (trichinosis) as I know the church he attends and there is no morality issue (but there could be, in another case).

Lawyers often specialize in certain areas of the law. Morality could be a limiting issue.

Fruit growers choose the vegetables they deal in. If eggplants have an evil nature, a grower could refuse to deal in them. He should be allowed.

In general, I avoid advocating limiting of personal freedom. I would think in this case the freedom of the pharmacist to restrict his merchandise would not seriously restrict the freedom of the public in general. The free market would see to it that there was adequate availability.
In all of the cases above, the professionals are the ones who directly decide and implement the procedure they choose. However, in medicine, the "underclass" of pharmacists provides an extra layer of administration that introduces another human element. It is one thing if a doctor refuses to prescribe RU-486 on religious grounds (a seperate question, anyway). But it is another thing if a patient can't receive a prescription from a doctor for it because the dispensary machine claims it is against his/her religion. Why should pharmacists have the ultimate say on the "rightness" of a diagnosis and treatment?

One wonders why someone became a pharmacist if they have objections to certain pharmaceuticals.

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Post #4

Post by Vladd44 »

UNfortunately its becoming more and more common. The current regime of intolerance is embolding the ignorant.

Texas has also considered laws to protect bigots who want to infringe on basic reproductive rights of women.

I believe pharmacists have every right to find a new job. Or do the one they agreed to do.
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Post #5

Post by Corvus »

Vladd44 wrote:UNfortunately its becoming more and more common. The current regime of intolerance is embolding the ignorant.

Texas has also considered laws to protect bigots who want to infringe on basic reproductive rights of women.

I believe pharmacists have every right to find a new job. Or do the one they agreed to do.
I must say, these objections strike me as very unorthodox coming from an avowed libertarian. :-k
ST88 wrote:Whose rights should be protected more, the right of the pharmacist to refuse or the right of the patient to receive?
But does the patient have a right to receive at all? From what I understand, the pharmacist is the owner or employee of a business, not the steward of a public service. It is responsible to its customers, and, like all private businesses, exists more or less for the express purpose of creating money. I don't particularly like this arrangement, but nevertheless, this is how the system works.

But what seems at first clear cut is obfuscated by numerous other issues. Society may not be able to force a person to act with philanthropy, but it has, in the past, forced private businesses not to discriminate against ethnicities and religions. It cannot force you to surrender an organ for your fellow - which is something I stand by - but it can force you to open your business to him. In that way, could it be claimed that a pharmacist that refuses to dispense a drug is discriminating against an opposing belief system, world view or ethical construct?

The pharmacist also is held responsible to a statutory body, so perhaps the argument that pharmacies, as small businesses, can do as they like is not entirely correct...

I apologise for not really giving an answer, just asking more questions, but this one is a toughie, ST88.
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Post #6

Post by Vladd44 »

Corvus wrote:I must say, these objections strike me as very unorthodox coming from an avowed libertarian.
Hello Corvus, maybe I was unclear with what I had NOT said.

I never commented on the fact of whether pharmacists had the right to refuse or not. The truth is racists have the right to hate, bigots have the right to intolerance. Ignorance is not a crime.

But I do believe that if someone agrees to do a job, they should do that job. No one is forcing a pharmacist to continue in a profession that he/she considers unethical.

Having said this, a self employed pharmacist should have every right to not dispense any medicine he/she chose not to distribute. And I would have the right to not even buy dental floss from such a person.
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Post #7

Post by BeHereNow »

It seems to me that a pharmacist who chooses to restrict their services has a moral and ethical obligation to help the customer find an easy way to get the services (prescriptions) they need.
There is a difference between personal choices, and professional conduct. The references in Vladd44’s links should be brought up on ethical charges, and their license suspended.
These pharmacists showed a distinct lack of ethics and good morals.
No professional has a right to inflict their moral code on me, if I am within the law.

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Post #8

Post by ST88 »

Corvus wrote:
ST88 wrote:Whose rights should be protected more, the right of the pharmacist to refuse or the right of the patient to receive?
But does the patient have a right to receive at all? From what I understand, the pharmacist is the owner or employee of a business, not the steward of a public service. It is responsible to its customers, and, like all private businesses, exists more or less for the express purpose of creating money. I don't particularly like this arrangement, but nevertheless, this is how the system works.
You have to ask what the purpose of the pharmacist is in the health care economy. If the pharmacist were a link in a chain of professionals that dispenses health care, that would be fine. But I would argue that the pharmacist is equivalent to a vending machine -- albeit a smart, sentient vending machine -- that dispenses the drugs the doctor prescribes. The harm, in my opinion, is restraint of trade. The pharmacist who objects to dispensing a drug on philosophical grounds is disallowing not only the doctor from prescribing the drug and the patient from recieving the drug, but also the company producing the drug from selling it and the government from regulating it.

Once the doctor prescribes the drug, it could be argued that it becomes a commercial transaction between the doctor and the patient. Health Care has special rules about how that transaction is handled -- the pharmacist, for example, can stop the transaction if it is discovered that the patient is taking an different drug or supplement that conflicts with the prescription. However, the courts do not recognize stopping a transaction like this for reasons that are not grounded in fact.

The pharmacist's first amendment right to exercise his religious beliefs, in my opinion, should not apply here because to do so would effectively declare that the company producing the drug was "morally incompetent". This is the definition of slander. This may be a legal reach of sorts, but if the pharmacist wants to assert first-amendment protection, s/he would have to abide by the provisos that the law gives it.
Corvus wrote:But what seems at first clear cut is obfuscated by numerous other issues. Society may not be able to force a person to act with philanthropy, but it has, in the past, forced private businesses not to discriminate against ethnicities and religions. It cannot force you to surrender an organ for your fellow - which is something I stand by - but it can force you to open your business to him. In that way, could it be claimed that a pharmacist that refuses to dispense a drug is discriminating against an opposing belief system, world view or ethical construct?
in most cases, a business has the right to refuse service to anyone without giving a reason. If the aggrieved party can PROVE that the reason was because of race, ethnicity, religion, etc., then the refusal of service is illegal. However, the burden is on the aggrieved party to prove it.

This is, however, a different situation, because the customer is not the party being discriminated against. Presumably the pharmacist would refuse to dispense RU-486 to the customer if s/he was a Christian or a non-Christian. In fact, the discrimination is against the pharmaceutical company because of religion! The pharmaceutical company should have a de facto case not only of slander and restraint of trade, but of discrimination based on religion. But this only works with pharmacists because of the odd position they are in with regards to the health care economy. For example, a retail store can refuse to carry the products of anyone it chooses.

Because doctors are the prescribing party, they are the "retailers" for the medicine. Because the pharmacy is the dispensing party, they are not "retailers" for the purposes of the transaction because they don't choose what to carry and not to carry -- they could be seen as brokers for the transaction if they were involved in the decision, but they aren't. Because they are dispensaries, they have as customers both the pharmaceutical companies and the general public, providing access to each for the other. Therefore, the pharmaceutical company can be seen as a customer and can be an aggrieved party.
Corvus wrote:The pharmacist also is held responsible to a statutory body, so perhaps the argument that pharmacies, as small businesses, can do as they like is not entirely correct...

I apologise for not really giving an answer, just asking more questions, but this one is a toughie, ST88.
I appreciate the trouble that you and other people on this board go to in order to formulate answers to these questions (or non-answer observations). My position is not quite settled either as these issues are not exactly set in stone in the law. But the discussion itself is interesting because religion holds such a strange position in our society.

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Post #9

Post by Corvus »

Corvus wrote:But what seems at first clear cut is obfuscated by numerous other issues. Society may not be able to force a person to act with philanthropy, but it has, in the past, forced private businesses not to discriminate against ethnicities and religions. It cannot force you to surrender an organ for your fellow - which is something I stand by - but it can force you to open your business to him. In that way, could it be claimed that a pharmacist that refuses to dispense a drug is discriminating against an opposing belief system, world view or ethical construct?
in most cases, a business has the right to refuse service to anyone without giving a reason. If the aggrieved party can PROVE that the reason was because of race, ethnicity, religion, etc., then the refusal of service is illegal. However, the burden is on the aggrieved party to prove it.

This is, however, a different situation, because the customer is not the party being discriminated against. Presumably the pharmacist would refuse to dispense RU-486 to the customer if s/he was a Christian or a non-Christian. In fact, the discrimination is against the pharmaceutical company because of religion! The pharmaceutical company should have a de facto case not only of slander and restraint of trade, but of discrimination based on religion. But this only works with pharmacists because of the odd position they are in with regards to the health care economy. For example, a retail store can refuse to carry the products of anyone it chooses.

Because doctors are the prescribing party, they are the "retailers" for the medicine. Because the pharmacy is the dispensing party, they are not "retailers" for the purposes of the transaction because they don't choose what to carry and not to carry -- they could be seen as brokers for the transaction if they were involved in the decision, but they aren't. Because they are dispensaries, they have as customers both the pharmaceutical companies and the general public, providing access to each for the other. Therefore, the pharmaceutical company can be seen as a customer and can be an aggrieved party.
Vous avez raison. Yes, I believe you are right. The decisions of pharmacists can slight a doctor by preventing him from fulfilling his job, which is a vital service to the community. (I take it that the inclusion of the "general public in the above quote is a slip, unless you mean that the general public is represented by the doctor.)

I also suppose that there is a tacit right to healthcare suggested by public hospitals and a public health service, which places private businesses dealing with medical matters in a different sphere than other money-making enterprises.

By the way, I like your new icon. Quite adventurous. ;)
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Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
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Post #10

Post by LillSnopp »

1. Should pharmacists be allowed to refuse to dispense otherwise legal drugs based on religious and/or ethical grounds?
I was just waiting for this one to come up. NO ! ! !, and no one can really debate this as..............->

Then they do not conduct their job as they should, hence, their employment should be terminated. Finito.
2. Doctors have the right not to perform procedures they have ethical objections to. Is medicine a special category in this case, or are there other professions where these issues might apply?
If this would actually be accepted (only in the United States), this would mean anyone could refuse to do certain things in whatever job they have, and refer to discrimination because of their religion. "Oh, no, i cant lift does Boxes, i am a Creationist, its against my religion". "no no, i cant charge you for that, money is a sin, you can take this car for free".... You get the enhanced point...

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