When the weird becomes normal

[Misty]

Below is an account of the property in which we have lived since 1997, which some might find interesting and like to comment on. In spite of all the activity in our present home, which was daily at one time, my husband and I are of the opinion there are no such things as spirits coming back from the dead, demons or any of the other suggestions people have made over the years. We firmly believe in a natural explantion, even if science might take a while to catch up. The 'haunting' stopped 2.5 years ago as abruptly as it started. The house didn't have a reputation before we moved in, neither did our field, make of that what you will!

As far as the field is concerned, we have not made any money out of it, in spite of suggestions that we should do so. We feel that would be very wrong. If people get some benefit from standing at the gate and taking in the vibes that is fine by us.

Reluctantly we have put our property on the market. Since my husband had a devasting brain haemorrhage in 2006 the property has got rather too much for us to keep up, and we need to downsize and move nearer our children. We are not mentioning in the marketing details the field or the strange things that happened in the house, we are not required to do so!

When the weird becomes normal

When moving to a new house you do not expect to employ an expert in the paranormal in addition to the surveyor and the solicitor. Maybe that is what we should have done before we moved into North Wales farmhouse (1610) in February 1997!

We had barely been in residence for two weeks when a reporter from our local weekly newspaper told us that an Irish couple had seen visions of the Virgin Mary in our field, and had subsequently experienced miracles of healing. Not being Catholics we were highly sceptical. The field is at the bottom of a quiet country lane and has nothing much to recommend it as it is steep and rugged. It is not much use for grazing, but we allow our neighbour to keep a few pet sheep there. In spite of my scepticism, when I was suffering with a frozen shoulder, that had defied medical aid, I stood at the field gate, and within five minutes my pain had eased; by the next day I was cured! I have a theory that if one has something like our field to focus the mind on, it acts like a catalyst in helping the body’s own healing mechanisms to kick in.

By June of 1997 our lane was becoming like a mini Lourdes with folk visiting the field in hope of a vision or a miracle. Thirteen years later, we still get a ‘pilgrim’ or two, and there are occasional reports of miracles. Two people have actually contacted me over the Internet from America, saying that they had been healed when they visited the field. According to a newspaper report, its tranquil vibes prevented a man from committing suicide in 1999.

Our youngest daughter, then 21, was on a visit home and woke up to find a monk sitting on the end of the bed. She found it a pleasant experience, until her brain kicked in, and then she wondered what on earth he was doing there! We thought it was a dream until I saw an apparition of a monk in broad daylight a couple of days later. From then on Brother Doli (Adolphus) became part of the family. Our son, who has Down’s Syndrome, saw him frequently, and accepted the fact as normal. I have seen the monk on about six occasions, each time I thought I was seeing a flesh and blood person for the second or two that I was aware of the presence.

In January 1999 the first stain of a Welsh religious word appeared on the wall in the lounge, TANGNEFEDD, meaning peace as in ‘peace be with you’. Soon the wall erupted in religious words, all in Welsh. We also noticed crosses and little monks appearing all over the place, inside and out. Carvings in the form of words, crosses and monks also materialised. This was a continuing phenomenon. Sometimes the words and images would remain for a year or two, other times they will come and go quite quickly.

I am a very amateur photographer, but I have taken a lot of photographs since 1997. From time to time an inexplicable image on a photo will appear that was not visible when I took the shot. One particularly memorable one was taken in the autumn of 1997. I happened to shoot some photos of the barn in our field, a really spooky image of a grotesque face appeared on one of the photographs. If I had seen it in reality, I think I would have been a few miles down the road!

Footsteps were frequently heard going up and down our staircase and along the landing. We also heard bumps and bangs of unknown origin. They could be so loud that one could be forgiven for thinking that the house was about to fall down! This phenomenon could occur at anytime of the day or night.

We often heard voices in the house at different times of day and night. The words are just beyond our level of hearing; we couldn’t pinpoint exactly where the sound is coming from. Occasionally these have sounded like the voices of children, a crowd of people, or just a couple having a conversation, we even heard a baby crying in our kitchen!

The transportation of very heavy objects like a 182lbs wooden owl and gravestone around the home and property were another remarkable feature of our curious activity.

There are a number of independent witnesses who have had strange experiences in our home. We have obviously considered the possibility of our activity being a hoax. However, if that were to be the case it would be one of the most remarkable. The phenomena have continued almost without a break for over 11 years, but suddenly stopped in January 2008 and we have been ‘spook free’ since then. We think that if all this amazing activity is genuine, and not a hoax, which is still a possibility, it is probably of natural origin and science will catch up in time. After all, things that we take for granted today, would have seemed paranormal 200 years ago!

Over the years the media have taken an interest in us. We have been the subject of several films, TV and radio programmes. Even the Foreign Office commissioned a film in the late 90s!

Strangely enough we didn’t find the activity frightening albeit a little disconcerting from time to time. Our house has always had a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, there was never a dull moment: we didn’t lack after dinner conversation when our unusual ‘houseguests’ were in residence.
RJG
June 2010

[faith]

Hello Misty,



What basis did you have to think it might be a hoax?
Seems strange that things suddenly ceased in January 2008. Are the hauntings attracted by a person in the family rather than the house?

Faith.xx

[Misty]

Hello Misty,



What basis did you have to think it might be a hoax?
Seems strange that things suddenly ceased in January 2008. Are the hauntings attracted by a person in the family rather than the house?

Faith.xx

Well it was all so weird, we naturally thought someone was playing games at first, although that explanation doesn't really tick all the boxes.

As for someone in the house being responsible albeit unconsciously, that is always a possibility I suppose.

[cnorman18]

Below is an account of the property in which we have lived since 1997, which some might find interesting and like to comment on. In spite of all the activity in our present home, which was daily at one time, my husband and I are of the opinion there are no such things as spirits coming back from the dead, demons or any of the other suggestions people have made over the years. We firmly believe in a natural explantion, even if science might take a while to catch up. The 'haunting' stopped 2.5 years ago as abruptly as it started. The house didn't have a reputation before we moved in, neither did our field, make of that what you will!

As far as the field is concerned, we have not made any money out of it, in spite of suggestions that we should do so. We feel that would be very wrong. If people get some benefit from standing at the gate and taking in the vibes that is fine by us.

Reluctantly we have put our property on the market. Since my husband had a devasting brain haemorrhage in 2006 the property has got rather too much for us to keep up, and we need to downsize and move nearer our children. We are not mentioning in the marketing details the field or the strange things that happened in the house, we are not required to do so!

When the weird becomes normal

When moving to a new house you do not expect to employ an expert in the paranormal in addition to the surveyor and the solicitor. Maybe that is what we should have done before we moved into North Wales farmhouse (1610) in February 1997!

We had barely been in residence for two weeks when a reporter from our local weekly newspaper told us that an Irish couple had seen visions of the Virgin Mary in our field, and had subsequently experienced miracles of healing. Not being Catholics we were highly sceptical. The field is at the bottom of a quiet country lane and has nothing much to recommend it as it is steep and rugged. It is not much use for grazing, but we allow our neighbour to keep a few pet sheep there. In spite of my scepticism, when I was suffering with a frozen shoulder, that had defied medical aid, I stood at the field gate, and within five minutes my pain had eased; by the next day I was cured! I have a theory that if one has something like our field to focus the mind on, it acts like a catalyst in helping the body’s own healing mechanisms to kick in.

By June of 1997 our lane was becoming like a mini Lourdes with folk visiting the field in hope of a vision or a miracle. Thirteen years later, we still get a ‘pilgrim’ or two, and there are occasional reports of miracles. Two people have actually contacted me over the Internet from America, saying that they had been healed when they visited the field. According to a newspaper report, its tranquil vibes prevented a man from committing suicide in 1999.

Our youngest daughter, then 21, was on a visit home and woke up to find a monk sitting on the end of the bed. She found it a pleasant experience, until her brain kicked in, and then she wondered what on earth he was doing there! We thought it was a dream until I saw an apparition of a monk in broad daylight a couple of days later. From then on Brother Doli (Adolphus) became part of the family. Our son, who has Down’s Syndrome, saw him frequently, and accepted the fact as normal. I have seen the monk on about six occasions, each time I thought I was seeing a flesh and blood person for the second or two that I was aware of the presence.

In January 1999 the first stain of a Welsh religious word appeared on the wall in the lounge, TANGNEFEDD, meaning peace as in ‘peace be with you’. Soon the wall erupted in religious words, all in Welsh. We also noticed crosses and little monks appearing all over the place, inside and out. Carvings in the form of words, crosses and monks also materialised. This was a continuing phenomenon. Sometimes the words and images would remain for a year or two, other times they will come and go quite quickly.

I am a very amateur photographer, but I have taken a lot of photographs since 1997. From time to time an inexplicable image on a photo will appear that was not visible when I took the shot. One particularly memorable one was taken in the autumn of 1997. I happened to shoot some photos of the barn in our field, a really spooky image of a grotesque face appeared on one of the photographs. If I had seen it in reality, I think I would have been a few miles down the road!

Footsteps were frequently heard going up and down our staircase and along the landing. We also heard bumps and bangs of unknown origin. They could be so loud that one could be forgiven for thinking that the house was about to fall down! This phenomenon could occur at anytime of the day or night.

We often heard voices in the house at different times of day and night. The words are just beyond our level of hearing; we couldn’t pinpoint exactly where the sound is coming from. Occasionally these have sounded like the voices of children, a crowd of people, or just a couple having a conversation, we even heard a baby crying in our kitchen!

The transportation of very heavy objects like a 182lbs wooden owl and gravestone around the home and property were another remarkable feature of our curious activity.

There are a number of independent witnesses who have had strange experiences in our home. We have obviously considered the possibility of our activity being a hoax. However, if that were to be the case it would be one of the most remarkable. The phenomena have continued almost without a break for over 11 years, but suddenly stopped in January 2008 and we have been ‘spook free’ since then. We think that if all this amazing activity is genuine, and not a hoax, which is still a possibility, it is probably of natural origin and science will catch up in time. After all, things that we take for granted today, would have seemed paranormal 200 years ago!

Over the years the media have taken an interest in us. We have been the subject of several films, TV and radio programmes. Even the Foreign Office commissioned a film in the late 90s!

Strangely enough we didn’t find the activity frightening albeit a little disconcerting from time to time. Our house has always had a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, there was never a dull moment: we didn’t lack after dinner conversation when our unusual ‘houseguests’ were in residence.
RJG
June 2010

This sort of thing is an example of why I lift an eyebrow when confronted with the attitude that "there is no such thing as the supernatural" and similar assertions. It's easy to dismiss reports of strange phenomena as urban legends and rumors and hearsay, but here we have direct testimony - and you'll notice the strict naturalists aren't exactly lining up to call you a liar, which is the only possible rebuttal to your post.

There ARE stranger things in the Universe than we imagine, or CAN imagine. It seems to me that denying that is as closed-minded and doctrinaire as the fundamentalist's strictly literal rigidity and resistance to proven facts.

If one's beliefs require one to deny reality, there's something wrong with them. And that goes for strict objectivism and naturalism as much as it does for fundamentalism. "Destroying the exception" remains a logical fallacy, and any blanket statement about "scientific facts" has to take accounts like yours into consideration.

The events that occurred in your home don't prove that there is a God, or that there are ghosts, or spirits, or anything "supernatural" - but it surely proves that there's SOMETHING going on that science can't explain, and something that can't be facilely dismissed as fiction, fantasy, or the result of "indoctrination."

[faith]

Hello Misty,



What basis did you have to think it might be a hoax?
Seems strange that things suddenly ceased in January 2008. Are the hauntings attracted by a person in the family rather than the house?

Faith.xx

Well it was all so weird, we naturally thought someone was playing games at first, although that explanation doesn't really tick all the boxes.

As for someone in the house being responsible albeit unconsciously, that is always a possibility I suppose.

Hi Misty,

Had you had any experiences prior to moving to the house?

Faith.xx

[Furrowed Brow]

This sort of thing is an example of why I lift an eyebrow when confronted with the attitude that "there is no such thing as the supernatural" and similar assertions.

There is no such thing as the supernatural other than in folks minds and that is not when looked at rigorously has not turned out to be a lie, hoax, misinterpretation of data, wishful thinking, mass hysteria, group psychology and so on. You not get Derren Brown on any channel in your town? I strongly suggest you Google him and seek out his shows. You will find it very difficult to believe this kind of stuff is anything other than a very human construction after a few hours in his company.

It's easy to dismiss reports of strange phenomena as urban legends and rumors and hearsay,

Yes.

but here we have direct testimony - and you'll notice the strict naturalists aren't exactly lining up to call you a liar, which is the only possible rebuttal to your post.

It is overwhelming likely someone is deceiving someone. And I’d clearly state that if it was my own very honest mother who gave the same account I’d think she was lying, inventing or misinterpreting the data, or gullible, or just wanted the most exciting narrative to be real, because that is the mostly likely truth.

There ARE stranger things in the Universe than we imagine,

I guess so.

or CAN imagine.

That is a guess.

It seems to me that denying that

It can’t be denied you are guessing.

is as closed-minded and doctrinaire

But you are guessing based on a picture of the universe drawn on the terms of a human narrative that gets a kick out of seeing stuff as weird.

as the fundamentalist's strictly literal rigidity and resistance to proven facts.

It is less deep than that. Stick to the facts in front of us...but all the facts....and red writing in welsh in a welsh house is...if a fact....evidence of a Welsh speaker writing in red on the wall of a Welsh house. How the heck do we get the supernatural out of that?

Denial is at heart resisting guess work, and excting narratives, and leaping away from the facts to support those narratives.

"Destroying the exception" remains a logical fallacy, and any blanket statement about "scientific facts" has to take accounts like yours into consideration.

Misty has not provided an exception. She has provided data in the form of red type. We can theorise and surmise as to the series of events that lead to the construction of that ted type. We do not have all the facts just red type Misty has provided.

The events that occurred in your home don't prove that there is a God, or that there are ghosts, or spirits, or anything "supernatural" –

Correct.

but it surely proves that there's SOMETHING going on that science can't explain,

Incorrect, the red type proves nothing, it may be used as evidence that “weird� events went on in and around Misty’s house. It is not evidence that all those “weird� events really happened or were truly weird.

and something that can't be facilely dismissed as fiction, fantasy, or the result of "indoctrination."

That is correct. However it is facile to accept anything on face value or be “open minded� about it unless that open mind is open to all the facts missing from the picture, and the very real potential like, hoax, delusional thinking, misinterpretation of data, wishful thinking, getting data to fit the most exciting and weird narrative and so on.

[cnorman18]

This sort of thing is an example of why I lift an eyebrow when confronted with the attitude that "there is no such thing as the supernatural" and similar assertions.

There is no such thing as the supernatural other than in folks minds and that is not when looked at rigorously has not turned out to be a lie, hoax, misinterpretation of data, wishful thinking, mass hysteria, group psychology and so on. You not get Derren Brown on any channel in your town? I strongly suggest you Google him and seek out his shows. You will find it very difficult to believe this kind of stuff is anything other than a very human construction after a few hours in his company.

It's easy to dismiss reports of strange phenomena as urban legends and rumors and hearsay,

Yes.

but here we have direct testimony - and you'll notice the strict naturalists aren't exactly lining up to call you a liar, which is the only possible rebuttal to your post.

It is overwhelming likely someone is deceiving someone. And I’d clearly state that if it was my own very honest mother who gave the same account I’d think she was lying, inventing or misinterpreting the data, or gullible, or just wanted the most exciting narrative to be real, because that is the mostly likely truth.

There ARE stranger things in the Universe than we imagine,

I guess so.

or CAN imagine.

That is a guess.

It seems to me that denying that

It can’t be denied you are guessing.

is as closed-minded and doctrinaire

But you are guessing based on a picture of the universe drawn on the terms of a human narrative that gets a kick out of seeing stuff as weird.

as the fundamentalist's strictly literal rigidity and resistance to proven facts.

It is less deep than that. Stick to the facts in front of us...but all the facts....and red writing in welsh in a welsh house is...if a fact....evidence of a Welsh speaker writing in red on the wall of a Welsh house. How the heck do we get the supernatural out of that?

Denial is at heart resisting guess work, and excting narratives, and leaping away from the facts to support those narratives.

"Destroying the exception" remains a logical fallacy, and any blanket statement about "scientific facts" has to take accounts like yours into consideration.

Misty has not provided an exception. She has provided data in the form of red type. We can theorise and surmise as to the series of events that lead to the construction of that ted type. We do not have all the facts just red type Misty has provided.

The events that occurred in your home don't prove that there is a God, or that there are ghosts, or spirits, or anything "supernatural" –

Correct.

but it surely proves that there's SOMETHING going on that science can't explain,

Incorrect, the red type proves nothing, it may be used as evidence that “weird� events went on in and around Misty’s house. It is not evidence that all those “weird� events really happened or were truly weird.

and something that can't be facilely dismissed as fiction, fantasy, or the result of "indoctrination."

That is correct. However it is facile to accept anything on face value or be “open minded� about it unless that open mind is open to all the facts missing from the picture, and the very real potential like, hoax, delusional thinking, misinterpretation of data, wishful thinking, getting data to fit the most exciting and weird narrative and so on.

Wait a minute; I don't disagree with much that you're saying here. I'm not saying that Misty's account is proof of anything, and I think I've made that clear enough.

But: for starters, there is a lot more going on here than the appearance of red writing. There are the apparitions, noises, healings, and so on as well. "Poltergeist" phenomena has been well-documented and researched for decades, and there have been many, many instances - and I suspect this may very well be one of them, considering the amount of media attention it has apparently drawn - where the phenomena remain scientifically unexplained. I think assuming "deception" is rather moving beyond the facts and evidence and jumping to conclusions itself.

Speculation seems appropriate to me; that's how scientific investigations begin, is it not? From the nature of these apparitions and of similar ones at old abbeys and monasteries, some have speculated that decades or even centuries of people doing the same tasks in the same place might leave some sort of "recording" of past events. It's not necessarily that there are actual spirits of the dead walking around; in fact, it seems rather unlikely considering the nature of the visions. Witnesses very often describe the apparations of monks, etc., as "like watching a movie." Perhaps it has something to do with the Earth's magnetic field or some such thing, and occurs in some places and not others. No one's proposing truly "supernatural" explanations here, but it seems very possible to me that we're seeing something that we don't yet understand. It might be worthwhile to try to find out what it is before we assume that Misty is a gullible naif.

All I'm saying is that it might be a good idea to "think outside the box" for a change. Dismissing all reports like this as obvious hoaxes doesn't strike me as a particularly scientific approach.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 4:

I agree my friend presents his case as something beyond "they won't believe it if it is true", and I also note some clarificatin' in his Post 7...

...It's easy to dismiss reports of strange phenomena as urban legends and rumors and hearsay, but here we have direct testimony - and you'll notice the strict naturalists aren't exactly lining up to call you a liar, which is the only possible rebuttal to your post.

If I were to consider myself a "strict naturalist", I would notice this OP was placed in the "General Chat" subforum, where challenges to claims are not warranted. I would further note calling the claimant a "liar" would be in violation of forum rules.

What we have here is one person's account of past events with absolutely no means of confirmation. What peer reviewed studies support this OP? What experts have examined this case? What are their credentials? What are their conclusions?

A TV show is hardly a scientific analysis.

..."Destroying the exception" remains a logical fallacy, and any blanket statement about "scientific facts" has to take accounts like yours into consideration.

What "scientific facts" has the OP presented?

The events that occurred in your home don't prove that there is a God, or that there are ghosts, or spirits, or anything "supernatural" - but it surely proves that there's SOMETHING going on that science can't explain, and something that can't be facilely dismissed as fiction, fantasy, or the result of "indoctrination."

Psychology? "Something in the water"?

While I personally believe the OP presents their account in an honest manner, we are presented with nothing but personal "eyewitness" accounts.

Need I present studies indicating eyewitness accounts can be faulty?

I challenge anyone to present this in the Science and Religion subforum - while noting such is NOT a requirement of forum rules.

Conclusion?
I, as a "strict naturalist", don't wish to debate a topic in the General Chat subforum, and any conclusion that such would go unchallenged as an implication it can't be challenged is unwarranted, IMO.

[Furrowed Brow]

But: for starters, there is a lot more going on here than the appearance of red writing. There are the apparitions, noises, healings, and so on as well.

Hmm. So what does Misty actually say. These things split into three groups.

Group A
1/ a frozen shoulder felt better after visiting a field.
2/ folk like to visit her field for its perceived healing effect
3/ a report a man did not commit suicide after a visit to the field.

Mundane answer: someone felt better is zero reason to invoke a “weird “cause. The placebo effect is a well understood and proven yet sadly mundane explanation, or a physical force that science has utterly failed to spot, and always manages to turn itself off when put to the test.

Group B
3/ The appearance Welsh graffiti plus other signs.
4/ Carvings
5/ Objects moving location

Mundane answer: though not Sherlock Holmes I'd say someone wrote in Welsh and moved some objects and made the carvings.

Group C
6/ spooky image in a photo she took.
7/ sounds and voices from unidentified source.

Mundane answer: images of Jesus apparently have turned up in potatoes and loaves of breads. Personally I once saw a ghastly face of shadow and light peering out from the front window of my grandmother’s house a week or so after she died. I leant back on my heals and the face disappeared. I leant forward and the face returned. I leant back and it disappeared. I leant forward and it showed itself. I deduced this ghost like to play peekaboo and was frightened of clouds because it stopped playing when the sun went in. It came back later when the some came out again.

Group D
8/ Misty says her daughter told her she saw a monk.
9/ Misty says she saw a monk six times
10/ He son tells Misty he too regularly sees the monk.

Group D: the data is the claim to seeing an apparition, not an apparition. Any thorough scientific explanation needs to explain the data. OK you go be the ghost buster, I’ll head up the group who do the close psychological study of each member of the family and their group behaviour.

"Poltergeist" phenomena has been well-documented and researched for decades,

Yes and nothing of that has ever stood up to scrutiny when the anecdotal and personal testimonies are put to the test.

..and there have been many, many instances - and I suspect this may very well be one of them, considering the amount of media attention it has apparently drawn –

Er.....kind of works to the opposite effect on me and I suspect the media love a ghost story and are not about to let facts get in the way.

...where the phenomena remain scientifically unexplained.

What phenonema are you referring to? The data is anecdotal stories. Folk saying stuff is the phenonema and some carvings. I want to explain the data, what are you trying to explain?

I think assuming "deception" is rather moving beyond the facts and evidence and jumping to conclusions itself.

I think assuming there is a phenomena when the facts are folk saying stuff and some very physical stuff like graffiti is moving beyond the facts.

Speculation seems appropriate to me; that's how scientific investigations begin, is it not?

Sure. Let the scientist go to Wales.

From the nature of these apparitions

Slow down. What apparitions? We’re are being scientific right. The data we have are the claims of Misty and her family, or in this instance Misty. That is the data. We have no data for an apparition....not yet. The Scientists have to go to Wales and get the physical data like recordings etc.

All I'm saying is that it might be a good idea to "think outside the box" for a change.

No problem with that so long as the box is accurately described and understood and tested before we try and think out of or even before there is a need to think out of it. Why even begin out of the box theorise when the exact form of data that does exists is not looked at straight on, and a certain amount of “reading into� is already going on. As I say I’m reading Welsh writing on Welsh walls, folk feeling better, physical objects moving location, and people saying they hear and see things. None of this requires a “weird� explanation. And it is not a case of prejudging Misty’s honesty it is case of looking at the data and what is needed to explain the data.

OK Maybe we should take a team and drop in on the Gower Family .

[cnorman18]

But: for starters, there is a lot more going on here than the appearance of red writing. There are the apparitions, noises, healings, and so on as well.

Hmm. So what does Misty actually say. These things split into three groups.

Group A
1/ a frozen shoulder felt better after visiting a field.
2/ folk like to visit her field for its perceived healing effect
3/ a report a man did not commit suicide after a visit to the field.

Mundane answer: someone felt better is zero reason to invoke a “weird “cause. The placebo effect is a well understood and proven yet sadly mundane explanation, or a physical force that science has utterly failed to spot, and always manages to turn itself off when put to the test.

Group B
3/ The appearance Welsh graffiti plus other signs.
4/ Carvings
5/ Objects moving location

Mundane answer: though not Sherlock Holmes I'd say someone wrote in Welsh and moved some objects and made the carvings.

Group C
6/ spooky image in a photo she took.
7/ sounds and voices from unidentified source.

Mundane answer: images of Jesus apparently have turned up in potatoes and loaves of breads. Personally I once saw a ghastly face of shadow and light peering out from the front window of my grandmother’s house a week or so after she died. I leant back on my heals and the face disappeared. I leant forward and the face returned. I leant back and it disappeared. I leant forward and it showed itself. I deduced this ghost like to play peekaboo and was frightened of clouds because it stopped playing when the sun went in. It came back later when the some came out again.

Group D
8/ Misty says her daughter told her she saw a monk.
9/ Misty says she saw a monk six times
10/ He son tells Misty he too regularly sees the monk.

Group D: the data is the claim to seeing an apparition, not an apparition. Any thorough scientific explanation needs to explain the data. OK you go be the ghost buster, I’ll head up the group who do the close psychological study of each member of the family and their group behaviour.

"Poltergeist" phenomena has been well-documented and researched for decades,

Yes and nothing of that has ever stood up to scrutiny when the anecdotal and personal testimonies are put to the test.

..and there have been many, many instances - and I suspect this may very well be one of them, considering the amount of media attention it has apparently drawn –

Er.....kind of works to the opposite effect on me and I suspect the media love a ghost story and are not about to let facts get in the way.

...where the phenomena remain scientifically unexplained.

What phenonema are you referring to? The data is anecdotal stories. Folk saying stuff is the phenonema and some carvings. I want to explain the data, what are you trying to explain?

I think assuming "deception" is rather moving beyond the facts and evidence and jumping to conclusions itself.

I think assuming there is a phenomena when the facts are folk saying stuff and some very physical stuff like graffiti is moving beyond the facts.

Speculation seems appropriate to me; that's how scientific investigations begin, is it not?

Sure. Let the scientist go to Wales.

From the nature of these apparitions

Slow down. What apparitions? We’re are being scientific right. The data we have are the claims of Misty and her family, or in this instance Misty. That is the data. We have no data for an apparition....not yet. The Scientists have to go to Wales and get the physical data like recordings etc.

All I'm saying is that it might be a good idea to "think outside the box" for a change.

No problem with that so long as the box is accurately described and understood and tested before we try and think out of or even before there is a need to think out of it. Why even begin out of the box theorise when the exact form of data that does exists is not looked at straight on, and a certain amount of “reading into� is already going on. As I say I’m reading Welsh writing on Welsh walls, folk feeling better, physical objects moving location, and people saying they hear and see things. None of this requires a “weird� explanation. And it is not a case of prejudging Misty’s honesty it is case of looking at the data and what is needed to explain the data.

OK Maybe we should take a team and drop in on the Gower Family .

Well, I guess there's no mystery; you already know all the answers. Somebody is obviously faking the writing, and everyone involved is either mentally unstable and prone to hallucination or a gullible idiot. I guess those are the proper assumptions to bring to an objective investigation.

Ain't science grand? And without even any investigation at all.

Obviously, any scientific investigation of the "paranormal" ought to be abandoned as a waste of time and all those so-called "scientists" engaged in it ought to quit and find real jobs. It's all nonsense, right? Why bother to even listen to such wild and obviously phony accounts? Let's just dismiss and ignore them. That's the way to remain objective and rational.