Is Rape just relatively wrong? Or ABSOLUTELY WRONG?

[steven84]

Mark Spence the Dean of S.O.B.E. (School Of Biblical Evangelism) encounters two atheists that were waiting for Ray Comfort and his crew to show up for some Open-Air preaching. SEE HERE:

Mark's first heckler was Bruce who ultimately concluded that morality is decided upon by "majority rule of a society." That is the very logical equation that justified Nazi Germany during the holocaust!

Frank said morality is genetic. This logical equation makes a man like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer justified in their actions. They were dancing to the exact tune their DNA was tuned play. By Frank's logic there wasn't really anything wrong with these men...they were just unfashionable to the times. No right, no wrong just DNA and the will to live. Frank ultimately said we need to be more opened-minded to rape...the means would justify the ends according to him.

Mark unravels this faulty logic and reveals it for what it is. Moral Relativism, a view in which there in no real right or wrong...just fashions and changes. A world in which a mother Teresa and Hitler are both validly equal in the ways they lived their lives.

The only way to justify and kind of Absolute morality (which is embedded in our thinking) is to posit a Moral Law Giver which is the very God and Designer of our God Given Conscience that works as a Moral compass...convicting us and pointing us in the direction of the Savior. The Law of God is a school master that drives us to the cross!

Out of the three men in this debate who’s points were the most valid and realistic?

Is there any better way to take on a moral relativist? For instance does anyone know a quicker way to cut to the heart of the issue resolved?

Is there really a “Right� and “Wrong� in the objective/absolute sense? Or is it really just a matter of opinions?

You decide which side you fall on:

To the the Moral Absolutist...rape is an atrocity, it is the epitome of WRONG.

To the moral relativist...rape is merely a matter of preference and opinion. Hitler had his season of being the RIGHT kind of guy.

SEE MARK'S ENCOUNTER HERE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kf3EgU6lk

[faith]

Ask the victim and the rapist, whether rape is just relatively wrong or absolutely wrong.

The rapist obviously didn't think to ask himself that question.
He did not do it because it was right or wrong.
So tell me, is it a relatively trivial matter or an deeply important matter?

Do you think the victim is suffering because it is relatively wrong or absolutely wrong?
Or is the victim suffering because of the attack and the scars it has left on her?
Not excluding men who have also suffered the horrific attack of rape.


Did the question need to be asked?

Faith. xx

[fredonly]

Yes - There is an objective right and wrong. However, there is no universal, trascendent right and wrong - the corollary of many religions, that God created morality or that it somehow springs forth from him. I see no evidence for this, so I have no reason to accept this notion.

We humans have evolved morality (evolved it biologically, socially, or a combination). Our morality appears to be rooted in empathy. Many philosophers have outlined the "golden rule" (treat others as you would like to be treated) - and this is the primary basis of objective morality. Rape is wrong because it is treating another in a way we would not want ourselves to be treated. Same with murder and stealing.

There is also SUBJECTIVE morality. Is eating the dead wrong? It is in our culture, but in some cultures it is a sign of respect for the deceased.

Incidentally, chimpanzees demonstrate empathy - so the root of morality is not something that completely sets us apart from other animals.

[jakeman]

We humans have evolved morality (evolved it biologically, socially, or a combination). Our morality appears to be rooted in empathy. Many philosophers have outlined the "golden rule" (treat others as you would like to be treated) - and this is the primary basis of objective morality. Rape is wrong because it is treating another in a way we would not want ourselves to be treated.

Sounds pretty subjective to me. If it involves what someone wants or how someone feels, I think it would be subjective. Although saying that morality is genetic has some weight, although I wouldn't liken any sort of genetic morality with the Golden Rule.

I think rape is relatively wrong, in that I believe that it is much more wrong than a lot of other things, but other people may not agree, and if I can't logically refute it, or even objectively and absolutely define 'good' and 'bad', then how could I possibly say that morality is absolute and objective?

I'm sure there are other people out there who can define 'good' and 'bad' in a way that they find accurate and relevent while still maintaining objectivity and impartiality, but I can't.

Minus human values, rape is neither good nor evil.

[WinePusher]

Yes - There is an objective right and wrong. However, there is no universal, trascendent right and wrong - the corollary of many religions, that God created morality or that it somehow springs forth from him. I see no evidence for this, so I have no reason to accept this notion.

We humans have evolved morality (evolved it biologically, socially, or a combination). Our morality appears to be rooted in empathy. Many philosophers have outlined the "golden rule" (treat others as you would like to be treated) - and this is the primary basis of objective morality. Rape is wrong because it is treating another in a way we would not want ourselves to be treated. Same with murder and stealing.

There is also SUBJECTIVE morality. Is eating the dead wrong? It is in our culture, but in some cultures it is a sign of respect for the deceased.

Incidentally, chimpanzees demonstrate empathy - so the root of morality is not something that completely sets us apart from other animals.

So answer the question.

Is rape absolutly wrong in any circumstance regardless of anyones opinion?

Please don't dodge it.

[Wyvern]

So answer the question.

Is rape absolutly wrong in any circumstance regardless of anyones opinion?

Please don't dodge it.

In our culture rape is absolutely wrong. For a differing view you can look at Saudi Arabia, rape is still wrong but usually the woman is held to blame instead of the rapists. Are they wrong or are we? The answer is neither, both are correct in their own cultural context. We don't like it because it does not fit into our morals, just as from their viewpoint they consider the way western women dress invites rape which is why much of western europe is experiencing a large increase of rapes as more muslim men immigrate to european nations.

[WinePusher]

So answer the question.

Is rape absolutly wrong in any circumstance regardless of anyones opinion?

Please don't dodge it.

In our culture rape is absolutely wrong. For a differing view you can look at Saudi Arabia, rape is still wrong but usually the woman is held to blame instead of the rapists. Are they wrong or are we? The answer is neither, both are correct in their own cultural context. We don't like it because it does not fit into our morals, just as from their viewpoint they consider the way western women dress invites rape which is why much of western europe is experiencing a large increase of rapes as more muslim men immigrate to european nations.

Is rape absolutly wrong to the victim?

[Wyvern]

So answer the question.

Is rape absolutly wrong in any circumstance regardless of anyones opinion?

Please don't dodge it.

In our culture rape is absolutely wrong. For a differing view you can look at Saudi Arabia, rape is still wrong but usually the woman is held to blame instead of the rapists. Are they wrong or are we? The answer is neither, both are correct in their own cultural context. We don't like it because it does not fit into our morals, just as from their viewpoint they consider the way western women dress invites rape which is why much of western europe is experiencing a large increase of rapes as more muslim men immigrate to european nations.

Is rape absolutly wrong to the victim?

You would have to ask the victim, but yes the vast majority of victims would say it is wrong. Are we talking about subjective morality or objective morality? Each individual person has their own subjective moral code while objective morality comes from the culture in which people live. For a serial killer his personal morals may not consider it wrong to kill but the society at large does consider it wrong.

[Flail]

So answer the question.

Is rape absolutly wrong in any circumstance regardless of anyones opinion?

Please don't dodge it.

In our culture rape is absolutely wrong. For a differing view you can look at Saudi Arabia, rape is still wrong but usually the woman is held to blame instead of the rapists. Are they wrong or are we? The answer is neither, both are correct in their own cultural context. We don't like it because it does not fit into our morals, just as from their viewpoint they consider the way western women dress invites rape which is why much of western europe is experiencing a large increase of rapes as more muslim men immigrate to european nations.

Is rape absolutely wrong to the victim?

You would have to ask the victim, but yes the vast majority of victims would say it is wrong. Are we talking about subjective morality or objective morality? Each individual person has their own subjective moral code while objective morality comes from the culture in which people live. For a serial killer his personal morals may not consider it wrong to kill but the society at large does consider it wrong.

These are common sense issues and no moral law giver is needed. Rape is force or threat of force applied to an unwilling victim to coerce them into an act against their choosing. In an ordered society such application of one will over another is obviously deviant and cannot be permitted. If you have to consult a manual or moral code to determine such things, you have lost your common sense.

[fredonly]

Minus human values, rape is neither good nor evil.

Sure - but we ARE humans and we HAVE values. We value survival (the engine of natural selection), and this may be the genetic root of our objective morality. We wish to survive, to thrive and procreate.

I think rape is relatively wrong, in that I believe that it is much more wrong than a lot of other things...

That's not what is typically meant by moral relativism. Sure, some things are worse than others, but the question is: are there things that are wrong in all situations and in all cultures? If yes (as I believe), then there are objective morals. Rape is wrong in all human contexts. Murder is wrong in all human contexts, and so is stealing. Sometimes extenuating circumstances may justify murder or stealing, but that doesn't alter the fact that these actions are basically wrong.

It does require reason to sort through nuances of morality, but the fact that there can be disagreement about a hierarchy of morality (is murder worse than rape?) doesn't change the fact that the actions are blatantly, objectively wrong.