Creation OR Evolution

Quemtal · Post by **Quemtal** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:47 pm

Hi everyone. I stumbled across this site quite by accidence, though I’m terribly glad I did. It’s a lively and open site in which one may expound one’s views, and may hear myriad other opinions.
Reading many of the discussions however, something shocked me: the number of members who seem to believe in evolution/long-age earth and yet call themselves Christians. I’m new to the site, so maybe this issue has been explicitly dealt with elsewhere (if so, please inform me); but if not, it’s one I would like to raise. I’m a Christian, and only a young one at that (eighteen-years-old). The world constantly bombards us with long-age earth points of view, and I must choose whether to believe these or not. I choose to base my thinking upon the infallible Word of God—that God said what He meant to say. If God meant to say He used evolution and millions of years, He would have written Genesis very differently.
Below I’ve given just a few reasons (there are many more) why I believe that to be a Christian on MUST believe in a literal Genesis to be a Christian.
I would just like to hear what others think about this topic. What are your views, beliefs, &c?

Some people say that the Genesis account of Creation is only an allegory or a metaphor. If this is so, a new translation of the Bible is necessary:

‘Then the Lord God formed the metaphor from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the metaphor became a living creature’ Genesis 2.7

‘Through one Metaphor sin entered the world…’ Romans 5.12

‘Enoch, seventh from a Metaphor’ Jude 14

‘The son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli… Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Metaphor, which was the son of God.’ Luke 3.23-28

‘Thus it is written, “The first Metaphor became a living being; the last Metaphor became a life-giving spirit.”’ 1 Corinthians 15.45

Would you consider such a translation to be accurate? I hope your answer is no. So if the Bible doesn’t say this, why do some Christians?
Without a literal belief in Adam, there is no literal belief in Jesus, which is absolutely necessary to be saved. The truths of the Gospel are reliant upon the HISTORY of Genesis 1-11. Without a first Adam, there can be no last Adam! An allegorical or metaphorical reading of Genesis is incompatible with the Gospel. And anyway, how metaphorical could we be? If you don't take 'the first man Adam' literally, how is it you can take 'GOD CREATED the first man Adam' literally?

Millions of years and evolution place death before the Fall. But death cannot have occurred before the fall, otherwise (yet again) the Sacrifice od Christ is negated.

As Christians, we must follow the example of Christ. But Christ was not an evolutionist (I know, it didn't exist then as it does now). Also, he wasn't a long-earther (they did exist then). When Jesus was asked about marriage (Matt. 19.3-6), he quoted Genesis 1.27 and 2.24. Jesus knew that without the history of Genesis, then there was no foundation for His teaching--and without the teachings of Christ, there is no Christianity.

Many read the Bible by reading into it. They put thoughts between the lines, thoughts that are not in God’s Word. And as a result there are evolutionists who call themselves Christians.
So please let’s read the Word for what it says, not what we want or expect it to say. Let’s allow the Bible to shape our view of the world, and not let the world shape our view of the Bible. Let’s keep in mind the words that first deceived Man, the words of Satan in the Garden, ‘Did God really say…?’ If we try to add to God’s Word as did Eve, then we too will fall. Remember Paul’s plea in 2 Corinthians 11.3, ‘But I’m afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.’
Here’s an exercise to try: First, read Proverbs 1.5-6, ‘Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not in your understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him…’ Then, read the Creation account in Genesis, but lay aside all outside thoughts, all your own ideas and notions. Read it, not INTO it.
Thank you for bearing with me so long (if you made it this far). I know it’s a long post, but I thought it necessary, and still there’s so much I’ve left out. I want to hear your thought and opinions on this matter. Thank you.

jwu · Post by **jwu** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:45 pm

What makes you think so?

Meteorites come in various sizes, from small ones which hardly make it to the ground to global killers which would wipe out any life on earth - with any sizes in between.

Why do you think that a meteorite that could have wiped out the dinosaurs has to kill any life on earth, including small mouse like mammals?

Furthermore, how do you explain the iridium layer at the K/T boundary then, as well as those microtectites and the chixculub crater?

fire_of_Jesus · Post by **fire_of_Jesus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:48 pm

what???

fire_of_Jesus · Post by **fire_of_Jesus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:51 pm

because in the bible we lived with them, so if the got wiped out with all the dust covering earth making us unable to breath we would never have survived, now would we?

jwu · Post by **jwu** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:59 pm

because in the bible we lived with them, so if the got wiped out with all the dust covering earth making us unable to breath we would never have survived, now would we?

We humans did not exist at the time when dinosaurs lived and got wiped out by that meteorite.

fire_of_Jesus · Post by **fire_of_Jesus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:03 pm

it seems ovious to me if you are a christian then you defently havent read the bible. and heres more proof, scientists have found footprents of human and dinasaur alike walking side-by-side, can you explain that!?

jwu · Post by **jwu** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:07 pm

it seems ovious to me if you are a christian then you defently havent read the bible.

I have, but i consider genesis to be metaphorical, not literal history.

and heres more proof, scientists have found footprents of human and dinasaur alike walking side-by-side, can you explain that!?

You mean the paluxy tracks? Sorry, even creationist organizations meanwhile consider these not to be evidence for this, but that they might be the result of erosion. If i recall correctly some even have been faked.

Aximili23 · Post by **Aximili23** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:13 pm

More on the Paluxy tracks. The first is by a creationist who believes men and dinosaurs lived together; even he doesn't find that claim credible.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/paluxy.html

http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/creati ... prints.HTM

ENIGMA · Post by **ENIGMA** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:15 pm

fire_of_Jesus wrote:because in the bible we lived with them, so if the got wiped out with all the dust covering earth making us unable to breath we would never have survived, now would we?

Yes, and in the Bible, Bats are birds, the Sun standing still is an event that requires a miracle, PI is 3, and picking up sticks on the Sabbath is a more heinous crime than slavery. Enough said.

Regardless, you completely miss the reason why the meteorite impact killed off the dinosaurs. Lets follow the chain of events:

Meteor hits Earth.
Dust gets blasted into the atmosphere, dimming the light that reaches the surface.
Less light means less food for plants, leading to fewer plants.
Less plants means less food for herbivores and omnivores leading to less food for carnivores.
Less food overall means that fewer animals are going to keep from starving to death.
The dinosaurs, requiring a fairly large supply of food are among the first to starve. The only things that survive long enough for the dust to clear are those that have relatively low food intake requirements, namely our ancestors and the ancestors of every living thing on the planet today..

fire_of_Jesus · Post by **fire_of_Jesus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:19 pm

for your information picking up sticks is not work? and if it killed the dinosaurs why didnt it kill us too?

jwu · Post by **jwu** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:22 pm

for your information picking up sticks is not work?

Sorry, i don't understand what you're trying to tell us.

and if it killed the dinosaurs why didnt it kill us too?

Because we weren't there yet when that happened.