Open discussion about the Urantia Book

[joer]

Zzy has often wanted to debate about context in the Urantia Book and often misrepresents it. Others also have doubts about it.

If anyone would wish to discuss it's contents in this Open Non-competitive dialogue, I believe I have a substantial knowledge about The Urantia Book (TUB), it's contents and the knowledge or perspective knowledge it refers to.

I'd be willing to answer any and all questions about it here in Open Dialogue to any and all who are interested in the REAL MEANINGS contained therein and how they reflect upon the world as we know it.

Thank you One and All. In all of us lies a perspective of Truth that when shared becomes part of the rest of us. joer

[Zzyzx]

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Zzy has often wanted to debate about context in the Urantia Book and often misrepresents it. Others also have doubts about it.

Correction: Zzyzx has challenged Joer to debate the Truth and Accuracy of the Urantia Book in Head to Head.

Joer is unwilling to debate that topic, but insists that the topic be limited or confined to specific topics or areas (such as "does the UB contain any truth") – to which Zzyzx replies, "The novel, 'Gone with the Wind' contains some truth. So what?"

I'd be willing to answer any and all questions about it here in Open Dialogue to any and all who are interested in the REAL MEANINGS contained therein and how they reflect upon the world as we know it.

Perhaps Joer is aware that this sub-forum is not open to "any and all" who may be interested. Posting here is by appointment only. I suggest that the topic be moved to C&A where others can participate.

Question #1 Is the following an accurate overview of the UB? If not, kindly indicate your preferences where they differ.

The Urantia Book is 2,097 pages long, and consists of an introductory statement and 196 "papers":

The foreword is not a "finished statement" but a "definitive guide" to the terminology used in those papers some of the writers were authorized to translate into the English Language. It is an outline of meanings, things and values designative of deity and universal reality. The word "Urantia" is first introduced in the foreword as the name of our planet "Earth".

Part I consists of 31 papers "Sponsored by a Uversa Corps of Superuniverse Personalities acting by authority of the Orvonton Ancients of Days" and is authored by Divine Counselors, Universal Censors, Mighty Messengers, Perfectors of Wisdom, One High in Authority, and One Without Name and Number. It presents narratives about the "Central and Superuniverses", beginning with "Universal Father" the "First Source and Center of all things and beings; the eternal and infinite God.

Part II is composed of 25 papers "Sponsored by a Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington" and is authored by Mighty Messengers, the Chief of Archangels, Vorondadek Sons, Brilliant Evening Stars, Melchizedeks, Malavatia Melchizedek, Archangels, Secondary Lanonandeks, Manovandet Melchizedek, and Machiventa Melchizedek. It is dedicated to subjects pertaining to the origin, administration and personalities of the "local universes." Part II expands on Part I. It presents narratives on many of the diverse inhabitants and their work as it is coordinated with God’s plans in the scheme of ascension and progression.

Part III has 48 papers "Sponsored by a Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington" and is written by Life Carriers, Melchizedeks, Solonia, Archangels, the Chief of Seraphim, Brilliant Evening Stars, the Chief of Midwayers, Solitary Messengers, Mighty Messengers, and the Chief of Evenings Stars. It covers the history of the Earth, presenting an explanation of the origin, purpose and destiny of the world and its inhabitants. 15 of these papers cover various topics such as "Deity and Reality", the concept of the Thought Adjuster, "Personality Survival", and "The Bestowals of Christ Michael".

Part IV is presented in 77 papers "sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia Midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek revelatory director." The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary midwayer who was onetime assigned to the superhuman watchcare of the Apostle Andrew." It was authored by Mantutia Melchizedek and the Midwayer Commission. It narrates "The Life and Teachings of Jesus". Included are papers about his childhood, teenage years, and the events that led to his crucifixion, death, and resurrection and his appearances after he rose. It continues with papers on Pentecost, and finally, "The Faith of Jesus". Through the story of Jesus' life, Part IV illustrates many of the concepts presented in the first three parts

Question #2 Which of the following can be shown to exist? What (exactly) is the source of verification of existence?

Apostle Andrew
Archangels
Brilliant Evening Stars
Central and Superuniverses
Chief of Archangels
Chief of Evenings Stars.
Chief of Midwayers
Chief of Seraphim
Corps of Local Universe Personalities
Divine Counselors
Eternal and infinite God.
First Source and Center of all things and beings;
Gabriel of Salvington
Life Carriers
Machiventa Melchizedek.
Malavatia
Manovandet Melchizedek
Mantutia
Melchizedek
Midwayer Commission
Mighty Messengers,
Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities
One High in Authority
One Without Name and Number.
Orvonton Ancients of Days
Perfectors of Wisdom
Secondary Lanonandeks
Solitary Messengers
Solonia
Universal Censors
Universal Father"
Uversa Corps of Superuniverse Personalities
Vorondadek Sons

Question #3 If the proposed beings (or characters, or personalities, or spirits, or whatever they are supposed to represent) cannot be shown to exist in anything other than imagination, why should anyone believe that they exist?

Question #4 If the characters of a tale cannot be shown to exist, why should anyone regard the tale as truthful?

Question #5 How was information said to be transmitted from extraterrestrial beings to humans?

[joer]

Hi Z. Sorry about the mistake. I guess I put this in the wrong place. How'd you get permission to post here? I don't mind my friend. It's good to have you here.

The purpose of this subforum is to allow two people to discuss while letting others view their dialogue. If you would like to participate in an open dialogue with someone, request to join the "One-on-one participant" usergroup.

So am I right in understanding this is a forum for a non-competitive discussion of things? NO debating. Just discussing?

Thanks Z for your expert help.

[Zzyzx]

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Hi Z. Sorry about the mistake. I guess I put this in the wrong place. How'd you get permission to post here?

I am a member of Open Dialogue and have been since its inception. One can learn about my membership by checking "usergroups" under my ID to the left of this and every post. One could also learn I am post to this sub-forum by observing that Cnorman and I had "A rambling discussion between friends" early this year in this sub-forum.

The purpose of this subforum is to allow two people to discuss while letting others view their dialogue. If you would like to participate in an open dialogue with someone, request to join the "One-on-one participant" usergroup.

So am I right in understanding this is a forum for a non-competitive discussion of things?

Notice that the stated purpose of the sub-forum is for discussions between TWO people who option to have others view their dialogue. Thus it is not the place for "questions from one and all".

NO debating. Just discussing?

It might be wise to ask moderators to move the thread to an appropriate sub-forum. I have no recommendation concerning which would be appropriate to "discuss not debate" the UB.

I understand that you are hesitant to debate the truth and accuracy of the UB.

Can you DISCUSS any of the five questions I asked?

[joer]

Hi Z. I moved this to general Chat so it's open to discussion by anyone. I'll gladly discuss stuff with you here.

I'll start with question 1.

Z wrote:

Question #1 Is the following an accurate overview of the UB? If not, kindly indicate your preferences where they differ.

The overview you copied and pasted in here I would label as a a very limited half page overview of a 2096 page book. It’s as accurate as it is limited. The list of the 196 papers would be longer than the overview you selected.

I would add this from the same Wikipedia information you accessed.

The Urantia Book
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Urantia Book (sometimes called The Urantia Papers or The Fifth Epochal Revelation) is a spiritual and philosophical book that discusses God, science, cosmology, religion, history and destiny.[1] It originated in Chicago, Illinois, USA, sometime between 1924 and 1955, but its authorship is unclear. There has been much debate and speculation on how the papers were produced.[2]
The writers introduce the word Urantia as the name of the planet Earth and state their intent is to "present enlarged concepts and advanced truth" in an "endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception." Among many other topics, it expounds on the origin and meaning of life, describes humankind's place in the universe, discusses the relationship between God and people, and presents a detailed biography of Jesus.
The Urantia Foundation first published The Urantia Book in 1955 in English. The organization has translated it into eleven other languages, with new translations in process.[3]
In 2001, a United States jury trial in Oklahoma City found that the Urantia Foundation's 1983 renewal of the book's copyright was invalid.[4] This decision was upheld in the United States Court of Appeals 10th District,[5] and the English version of the book is considered to have entered the public domain in the U.S. as of 1983.[2] In 2006, the international copyright on the English text expired.[6] A print edition containing a topical index and an audio DVD has been published by Uversa Press since the 2001 decision. Copies of The Urantia Book are on the Internet in various formats and it has been adapted to more recent platforms such as the Kindle and the iPhone / iPod Touch App Store. Several audio books of the text are also on the Internet.

In addition the original editions also have a Title of the Papers index and a Contents of the Book index before the forward.

The approach I would suggest Z if you really want to discuss the book. Is pick One of the personalities from the list you created that you find some familiarity with and then we can discuss what the book says about it.

What do you think about that Z?

[otseng]

Since joer had originally stated that the purpose is not to debate, I've moved this to General Chat. If it becomes a debate, I can move it to C&A.

[McCulloch]

Q: Is The Urantia Book a new revelation about God?

A: Sure it is, as much as any of the other revelations (Bible, Qu'ran, Mormon, etc) are about God.

Although, I might quibble about the term revelation. It implies that God himself has revealed something to humanity, when in fact, there is no evidence that any of the alleged revelations are anything more than human imagination.

[joer]

Since joer had originally stated that the purpose is not to debate, I've moved this to General Chat. If it becomes a debate, I can move it to C&A.

Thank You Otseng.

[joer]

Q: Is The Urantia Book a new revelation about God?

A: Sure it is, as much as any of the other revelations (Bible, Qu'ran, Mormon, etc) are about God.

Although, I might quibble about the term revelation. It implies that God himself has revealed something to humanity, when in fact, there is no evidence that any of the alleged revelations are anything more than human imagination.

Hi Mac. Thanks for the post. What would convince you that anything was "anything more than human imagination.?"

Doesn't your world view exclude that? I mean about any greater intelligence existing beyond anything human?

I mean if your World View does premit that, what could be like?

Thanks Joe

[Zzyzx]

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The approach I would suggest Z if you really want to discuss the book. Is pick One of the personalities from the list you created that you find some familiarity with and then we can discuss what the book says about it.

What do you think about that Z?

Do you propose discussing the character(s) as fictional or as literal?

It makes a considerable difference whether discussion is hypothetical / fanciful vs. being literal / actual.