Theory of Creation?

[juliod]

The big problem in the debate over creation is the utter lack of a "theory of creation".

They never tell us the where and when or their theory, and never tell us the evidence that supports it.

For example, Genesis is true, then the three most important events in history are 1) The Creation, 2) The Flood, and 3) The Babel story.

Some creationists accept 4004 BC for the date of creation. But I have never seen anyone put a date on the other two.

The Babel story should be very easy to support, since all branches of linguistics should point to the location of the tower as the origin.

It's also remarkable that no creationist organization has yet built a replica ark and showed that it it seaworthy and capable of carrying a large number of animals, etc.

DanZ

[YEC]

Juliod posted:
It's also remarkable that no creationist organization has yet built a replica ark and showed that it it seaworthy and capable of carrying a large number of animals, etc

How much do you think it would cost to do this?

Just for the record, the issue of the Noah's ark has been demonstrated numerous time to have been feasible. I wish a full scale replica could be built..but as I said, who wants to sponsor it?

The ark was basically a rectangle barge (you can find the dimensions in the bible) that only had to carry about 16,000 animals and eight people.

The shape and dimensions described in Genesis provide for a very stable sea worthy vessel.

[mrmufin]

It's also remarkable that no creationist organization has yet built a replica ark and showed that it it seaworthy and capable of carrying a large number of animals, etc

How much do you think it would cost to do this?

I'd guess quite a bit less than building, say, a modern cruise ship, tanker, or destroyer. And probably far less than the $850 million spent to send the Spirit and Observer rovers to Mars.

Just for the record, the issue of the Noah's ark has been demonstrated numerous time to have been feasible. I wish a full scale replica could be built..but as I said, who wants to sponsor it?

Who has demonstrated the feasability of such a construct? What minimum rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire earth in forty days? (Feel free to show your calculations.) Evaluating the plausability of the "theory" would also include load testing the craft in the described conditions. It might be tough to achieve the necessary rainfall for a useful evaluation... It might get kinda tricky finding a six hundred year old man to put the boat together, too...

Do you think the cost is the only prohibitive factor in this test?

The ark was basically a rectangle barge (you can find the dimensions in the bible) that only had to carry about 16,000 animals and eight people.

What would the carniverous animals eat while aboard the ark?

The shape and dimensions described in Genesis provide for a very stable sea worthy vessel.

How do you know that?

Regards,
mrmufin

[YEC]

It's also remarkable that no creationist organization has yet built a replica ark and showed that it it seaworthy and capable of carrying a large number of animals, etc

How much do you think it would cost to do this?

I'd guess quite a bit less than building, say, a modern cruise ship, tanker, or destroyer. And probably far less than the $850 million spent to send the Spirit and Observer rovers to Mars.

So????
Do you want to kick in or raise the first million dollars?

Just for the record, the issue of the Noah's ark has been demonstrated numerous time to have been feasible. I wish a full scale replica could be built..but as I said, who wants to sponsor it?

Who has demonstrated the feasability of such a construct?

Scientist.
Why do you claim the ark was not feasable?

What minimum rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire earth in forty days? (Feel free to show your calculations.)

Why didn't you open up your bible and read about where all the water came from prior to asking this question?

Evaluating the plausability of the "theory" would also include load testing the craft in the described conditions. It might be tough to achieve the necessary rainfall for a useful evaluation... It might get kinda tricky finding a six hundred year old man to put the boat together, too...

In our times it would be tricky finding a 600 year old guy to supervise the building of the ark.

Do you think the cost is the only prohibitive factor in this test?

It is a big factor.

The ark was basically a rectangle barge (you can find the dimensions in the bible) that only had to carry about 16,000 animals and eight people.

What would the carniverous animals eat while aboard the ark?

The shape and dimensions described in Genesis provide for a very stable sea worthy vessel.

How do you know that?

I have read of wave tank test using those dimensions that show the boat to be very seaworthy

Regards,
mrmufin

[mrmufin]

It's also remarkable that no creationist organization has yet built a replica ark and showed that it it seaworthy and capable of carrying a large number of animals, etc

How much do you think it would cost to do this?

I'd guess quite a bit less than building, say, a modern cruise ship, tanker, or destroyer. And probably far less than the $850 million spent to send the Spirit and Observer rovers to Mars.

So????
Do you want to kick in or raise the first million dollars?

If you can convince me of the plausability of the flood story, I'll see what I can do.

Just for the record, the issue of the Noah's ark has been demonstrated numerous time to have been feasible. I wish a full scale replica could be built..but as I said, who wants to sponsor it?

Who has demonstrated the feasability of such a construct?

Scientist.

Could you be a little bit more specific?

Why do you claim the ark was not feasable?

The curious lack of evidence that corroborates the story.

What minimum rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire earth in forty days? (Feel free to show your calculations.)

Why didn't you open up your bible and read about where all the water came from prior to asking this question?

Genesis 7:4 "For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made."

Genesis 7:12 "And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights."

Genesis 7:19 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered."

So again, I ask: What minimum rate of rainfall would be required to cover the entire earth in forty days?

Evaluating the plausability of the "theory" would also include load testing the craft in the described conditions. It might be tough to achieve the necessary rainfall for a useful evaluation... It might get kinda tricky finding a six hundred year old man to put the boat together, too...

In our times it would be tricky finding a 600 year old guy to supervise the building of the ark.

So we really wouldn't be able to test the entirety of the flood "theory" then, would we? Incidentally, my copy of the bible says nothing of a supervisory role of Noah; it speaks more to his involvement in the construction:

Genesis 6:13,14: "Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits."

Do you think the cost is the only prohibitive factor in this test?

It is a big factor.

What other factors might preclude testing the "theory"?

The ark was basically a rectangle barge (you can find the dimensions in the bible) that only had to carry about 16,000 animals and eight people.

What would the carniverous animals eat while aboard the ark?

The shape and dimensions described in Genesis provide for a very stable sea worthy vessel.

How do you know that?

I have read of wave tank test using those dimensions that show the boat to be very seaworthy

Please elaborate on the "wave tank test."

Regards,
mrmufin

[YEC]

Some references to help answer your questions:

GEN 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

There was more than rain.

[YEC]

Genesis 6:13,14: "Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits."

This verse doesn't tell us how Noah made for himself an ark....it allows for help to make HIS ARK.

I can make something for myself and have help making this item for myself.

try again.

[mrmufin]

Some references to help answer your questions:

GEN 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

There was more than rain.

Where are these alleged "springs of the great deep"? What percentage of the water was not rain? These factors, I think, would be crucial in understanding the plauability of the flood "theory" as well as constructing a testable model. And I'm still curious as to what scientist(s) has demonstrated the feasability of Noah's ark...

Also, what did the carnivores eat while aboard the ark?

This verse doesn't tell us how Noah made for himself an ark....it allows for help to make HIS ARK.

I can make something for myself and have help making this item for myself.

try again.

Actually, the phrase, "and this is how you shall make it" seems pretty straightforward to me. Either way, it doesn't help make the case for a 600 year old man, as a supervisor, laborer, engineer, zoologist, or anything, really.

Try again yourself.

Regards,
mrmufin

[juliod]

How much do you think it would cost to do this?

Getting back to my original point, how much could it cost for creationists to develop a coherent theory, or at least an explanation of what they believe?

It hasn't been done.

When was the creation?

When was the flood?

Where and when was the Babel story?

How do these events tie in with the Minoan and Mycenean civilizations? How about the Nile, Ganges, and Yellow River civilizations? How about the America?

How do creationists account for the Neolithic-, Bronze- and Iron-Ages, in different parts of the world, when Genesis says Iron and Bronze were in use prior to the Babel story when all people were living in a unified culture?

In other words, why are we always talking about science? The real topic here is Creation.

DanZ

[Yarr the Pirate]

Dont try to ask YEC questions about the scientific certitude of Genesis. He has already blatantly avoided those questions on another thread. It's best to save your breath before the argument delves into the "Noyadidnt!" realm.

Just a word of caution