Introducing...Murray!

[The Happy Humanist]

I’d like to introduce a new character on the Cosmic scene…new to you anyway. He’s been around for a long time. His name is Murray, and he’s…well, he’s the Hyper-God. He is the deity that created the Judeo-Christian deity, YHWH/Jehovah/Allah. (Actually Murray’s name for him was Irving, but he’s OK with Jehovah.) So the age-old question of “Who made God?” has finally been answered. Murray’s your culprit.

Murray exists in a hypernatural realm outside of heaven, called “Blorgen.” Blorgen is inaccessible to heaven. In fact, Jehovah does not know about Murray. Being more powerful than Jehovah, Murray is able to completely hide his existence from Jehovah. Murray likes it that way – makes things interesting for him, and oh, the tricks he plays…but I digress.

Unlike Jehovah, Murray has not yet written his autobiography. Until now, he has not communicated his existence to humanity. Now he has chosen to do so, through me.

Now, the point of my revealing Murray’s existence to you is not to indulge some childish urge to parody revealed religion. Murray provides us with some interesting insights into the nature of our “knowledge” of God.

First, obviously you cannot prove Murray’s non-existence. More to the point, however, Murray proves that omniscience is impossible. For Jehovah cannot know for certain that Murray does not exist. It is in the nature of knowledge that not all knowledge is possible, for how does one know that one knows everything? That there is not a greater reality that one does not have access to? I submit that this applies to God in his heaven as much as it applies to us. And furthermore, I’m certain that God, if he exists, is aware of this limitation, and hence cannot rightfully claim omniscience. (Murray says in fact that Jehovah does not make such a claim; that omniscience was thrust upon him by human interpretation. No dummy, that Irving…er, Jehovah).

There are many other thought-experiments that Murray can inspire. In fact, Murray says he really digs this stuff. Oh, and in case you’re wondering, Murray says that he does not know who made him. He says he feels like he’s been around forever, but, he’s perfectly aware that there may be an even greater being, a hyper-hyper-god, or something.

Anyone have any questions for Murray?

[BeHereNow]

Does anyone besides the delusional jimspeiser have knowledge or understanding of Murray?

[BeHereNow]

Does anyone besides the delusional jimspeiser have knowledge or understanding of Murray?

[The Happy Humanist]

Does anyone besides the delusional jimspeiser have knowledge or understanding of Murray?

"A Question. Since before your sun burned bright in your sky, I have awaited...A Question."

--City on the Edge of Forever (Star Trek Classic)

Now you've made several mistakes in one post. First, you have violated forum guidelines by "going ad hom"...but I'll let the forum admins handle that.

Second, you have assumed that a deity must be known by all or even many in order to be a true deity. Where is that written?

Third, the phrasing of your question presumes the answer. If someone pipes up and says "yes," I might not be so delusional!

Murray doesn't mind you insulting his messenger on earth (thanks a LOT, Murray!) but he doesn't take kindly to unwarranted assumptions. While he encourages critical thinking, he entreaties you to go along with the delusional jimspeiser for now, and invites comparison between him and the god you call Jehovah - "just run with it" he says.

[otseng]

Does anyone besides the delusional jimspeiser have knowledge or understanding of Murray?

Yes, please refrain from using derogatory adjectives to describe other posters.

[mrmufin]

I’d like to introduce a new character on the Cosmic scene…new to you anyway. He’s been around for a long time. His name is Murray, and he’s…well, he’s the Hyper-God. He is the deity that created the Judeo-Christian deity, YHWH/Jehovah/Allah.

First, obviously you cannot prove Murray’s non-existence. More to the point, however, Murray proves that omniscience is impossible. For Jehovah cannot know for certain that Murray does not exist. It is in the nature of knowledge that not all knowledge is possible, for how does one know that one knows everything? That there is not a greater reality that one does not have access to? I submit that this applies to God in his heaven as much as it applies to us. And furthermore, I’m certain that God, if he exists, is aware of this limitation, and hence cannot rightfully claim omniscience.

Maybe it's just a minor oversight on your part, but I couldn't help but notice a possible inconsistency in your statements. In your first paragraph you say, "[Murray] is the deity that created the Judeo-Christian deity, YHWH/Jehovah/Allah." This statement strongly implies the existence of Yahweh von Jehovah d'Allah God, as Murray created the deity. But further down you say, "And furthermore, I’m certain that God, if he exists, is aware of this limitation [...]" (emphasis added). Did Murray create God or not? If so, did Murray do something with God? On the one hand, you speak confidently of Murray's role in the creation of God, while reserving some skepticism. Could that be an indication of your lack of faith in Murray?

Anyone have any questions for Murray?

Are there any posthumous consequences associated with belief (or lack thereof) in Murray? Does Murray need praise and worship, or is he a low-maintenance deity?



Regards,
mrmufin

[The Happy Humanist]

I’d like to introduce a new character on the Cosmic scene…new to you anyway. He’s been around for a long time. His name is Murray, and he’s…well, he’s the Hyper-God. He is the deity that created the Judeo-Christian deity, YHWH/Jehovah/Allah.

First, obviously you cannot prove Murray’s non-existence. More to the point, however, Murray proves that omniscience is impossible. For Jehovah cannot know for certain that Murray does not exist. It is in the nature of knowledge that not all knowledge is possible, for how does one know that one knows everything? That there is not a greater reality that one does not have access to? I submit that this applies to God in his heaven as much as it applies to us. And furthermore, I’m certain that God, if he exists, is aware of this limitation, and hence cannot rightfully claim omniscience.

Maybe it's just a minor oversight on your part, but I couldn't help but notice a possible inconsistency in your statements. In your first paragraph you say, "[Murray] is the deity that created the Judeo-Christian deity, YHWH/Jehovah/Allah." This statement strongly implies the existence of Yahweh von Jehovah d'Allah God, as Murray created the deity. But further down you say, "And furthermore, I’m certain that God, if he exists, is aware of this limitation [...]" (emphasis added). Did Murray create God or not? If so, did Murray do something with God? On the one hand, you speak confidently of Murray's role in the creation of God, while reserving some skepticism. Could that be an indication of your lack of faith in Murray?

Anyone have any questions for Murray?

Are there any posthumous consequences associated with belief (or lack thereof) in Murray? Does Murray need praise and worship, or is he a low-maintenance deity?



Regards,
mrmufin

So glad you pointed this out, it's an important point! See, I don't take Murray at his word for anything. And furthermore, Murray encourages this sort of critical thinking.

No, Murray requires no praise. He's perfectly content to sit back and watch us try to figure things out. He does say that if you accept his existence, AND learn Backgammon, you can upgrade from Heaven to Blorgen upon your demise.

[The Happy Humanist]

So that you all may come to know Murray a little better, let me give you a little background on him.

First of all, Murray's a lot more mellow than most deities. He's sort of taking a "wait and see" attitude with Jehovah and his little ant farm. If things get too out of whack, he'll step in. Basically a benevolent fella, but not OMNI-benevolent. (He cheats at Backgammon). Back in deity school his nickname was "Murray the Merciful", and he was voted "Most Likely to Absolve Mankind of Its Sins"

A rather humorous illustration of his benevolence: Let it hereby be known that there is no one in Hell. The place is empty. Right inside the gate, Murray hid a transporter pad, and anyone who steps through is beamed directly to Blorgen. He got a little sick of hearing the screaming, and he was never sure Hell was such a great idea on God's part to begin with. So everyone who has ever died and NOT gone to heaven, is in Blorgen, dining on Swedish meatballs and playing Backgammon with Murray. This includes Lucifer. But there's nothing to worry about, ya see, upon entry, Murray immediately removes everyone's Original Sin and makes everyone happy-go-lucky - "the way it shoulda been in the first place," he says.

And of course, God knows nothing of this. So don't tell him, it'll be our little secret, OK?

[Zarathustra]

I totally agree with the intended meaning of your post. However, I do have one minor quarrel with it:

Murray immediately removes everyone's Original Sin and makes everyone happy-go-lucky...

Can removing a human's Original Sin (assuming it exists) alter their perception of the reality Jehovah had prepared for them. More to the point, do they automatically become good if they have no perception of bad? Or will they just, in their quest for meaning, re-create a standard by which to measure morality? And what happens if people sin (in Murray's eyes) in Blorgen, simply because not knowing of the existence of good and evil leads them to do evil unknowingly?

Also, I have a question for Murray: what happens when Jehovah goes to meet Lucifer for the battle of the Apocalypse and Lucifer doesn't show up? Or, if he does show up, he is absolved of his sins and (in theory) is good?

[The Happy Humanist]

I totally agree with the intended meaning of your post. However, I do have one minor quarrel with it:

Murray immediately removes everyone's Original Sin and makes everyone happy-go-lucky...

Can removing a human's Original Sin (assuming it exists) alter their perception of the reality Jehovah had prepared for them. More to the point, do they automatically become good if they have no perception of bad? Or will they just, in their quest for meaning, re-create a standard by which to measure morality? And what happens if people sin (in Murray's eyes) in Blorgen, simply because not knowing of the existence of good and evil leads them to do evil unknowingly?

Also, I have a question for Murray: what happens when Jehovah goes to meet Lucifer for the battle of the Apocalypse and Lucifer doesn't show up? Or, if he does show up, he is absolved of his sins and (in theory) is good?

First of all, welcome, and Murray is honored to be the subject of your first post.

Second, if you "totally agree" with the intended meaning of the post, then (assuming you understand it) you realize that questions such as yours are unanswerable.

Third, Murray says to check out the thread called "What's It Like In Heaven?" under Christianity. That's where some really good questions like yours are being asked...and there's more to come.