What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

[William]

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #87]

the church was never built upon only written words, but also oral tradition. Even Bart Ehman teaches this and he is an atheist.

And that's my point. Whereas other denominations base almost all of their dogmas on Biblical declarations, (not that this makes them true) Catholicism makes up a lot of theirs as they best suit its appetite, which, of course, is their prerogative, but it's hardly inspiring or compelling.

"'The Virgin Mary was free of original sin from the moment of her conception.' Not that we have any proof, or even evidence, but because we say so."

.

Just wondering if you guys are going to tie this stuff in with the Thread Subject?

Fair enough question:

"IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?"

As a hard determinist I have to say that they had no choice in the matter. If they resisted it would have been because they could not have done any differently. As for being permitted to do so eventually, that would depend on what god was made to do. If he was caused to permit them then that's what the circumstances would be, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'd comply and eat the apple.

.

[William]

William: Should we consider the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, to being metaphor?

OAI: In the Bible, the story of the "fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil" is found in the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, and it is a key story in the Bible and in the belief system of many Christians.
The story is a part of the first creation account found in the Bible, and it describes how God created the world and everything in it, including human beings, who were created in God's image. In this story, God gives the first human beings, Adam and Eve, the ability to make moral choices, but warned them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Satan, appearing as a serpent, tempts Eve to eat from the tree, and she then gives the fruit to Adam, who eats it as well. As a result, Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, and God warns them of the consequences of their actions.
Interpreting the Bible is a complex task, and different people may interpret the story of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in different ways. In this case, some Christians might interpret the story of the fruit as a metaphor for the fall of humanity, and the consequences that it brought. The tree, the fruit, and the

William: My question was - "Should we consider the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, to being metaphor? " re the subject of biblical metaphor - my bad for assuming you would realize that...

OAI: My apologies for misunderstanding the question. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Bible is not commonly interpreted as a metaphor, but rather as a literal event in the creation story. It is often understood to symbolize the disobedience of Adam and Eve and the subsequent fall of humanity into sin, which is a central theme in the biblical theology.
However, it's worth noting that there's a diversity of interpretation across different religious denominations and movements, some scholars, theologians and readers, may interpret the story as a metaphor for different things, such as a metaphor for the acquisition of knowledge, or a metaphor for the beginning of human consciousness, for example.
It's important to understand that the Bible is not a scientific or historical text, but rather a collection of texts that were written by different people in different times, and in different literary forms, and that was passed down and translated through the centuries. The meaning of the texts is open to interpretation and can be understood in different ways. When it comes to interpreting metaphorical language, it's important to consider the context and other perspectives.

William: Okay. So if we accept for the sake of argument that the forbidden fruit tree was a literal thing, does the story indicate that it was the fruit which caused death?

OAI: In the Bible, the story of the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the book of Genesis does not specifically indicate that it was the fruit itself that caused death.
The text describes that after eating from the tree, God says to Adam and Eve "In the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" (Genesis 2:17) . This "death" is often understood to refer not only to physical death, but also spiritual death, which is separation from God, and death to eternal life.
The Bible uses the term "death" in different ways, and it's important to take the context into account when interpreting it. In this case, death is a metaphor for the consequences of disobedience, the separation from God, and the loss of the perfect life in the Garden of Eden, which is not a physical death, but a spiritual one. It is also worth noting that death was not introduced to the world after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, but death was part of the creation, and the Bible states that God created death (Isaiah 45:7) and that it was not good (Ecclesiastes 7:17).
Therefore, in this account, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents the choice that was given to Adam and Eve to either obey God or to disobey him. Eating the fruit symbolizes their choice to disobey God and the consequences that followed as a result of that disobedience. The story ultimately speaks about the nature of humanity, the free will and the responsibility that comes with it, and the relationship between God and humans.

William: Are you able to answer certain questions in the manner of conjecture?

OAI: As an AI, I am able to provide information and answer questions based on the data and knowledge that I have been trained on, but I am not able to provide personal opinions or conjecture. I can only provide you with information that is based on reliable sources, and that has been researched and verified by experts in the field.
That being said, there might be some cases where the information or answer to a question is not well-established and clear, and in those cases, I can provide you with possible answers, but it's important to consider them as hypothesis or theories rather than a fact. It's also good to consider alternative perspectives and to be aware of the limitations of my knowledge and the possibility of errors.
When it comes to the interpretation of religious texts, it's important to remember that it can be a complex and personal task, and different people may interpret them in different ways. It's always good to approach any interpretation with an open mind, consider different perspectives, and be mindful of how beliefs might impact one's perception of the world.

William: Okay. Since we agree then that the fruit itself was not what caused death, are you able to answer the question “IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?”

OAI: The Bible does not specifically answer the question of whether Adam and Eve would have been permitted to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil if they had resisted the temptation to do so.
The story in the Bible focuses on the disobedience of Adam and Eve, and the consequences that followed as a result of that disobedience. It is not clear if they would have been allowed to eat the fruit later or not. Some theologians, interpret that they wouldn't, as the eating from the fruit was seen as an act of disobedience to God's command and it would not be undone by waiting. Others interpret that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was part of the test that God had set for Adam and Eve, and that it was meant for them to eventually eat from it, and that the disobedience comes from the timing of it.
It's worth noting that interpreting the Bible is a complex task and different people may interpret the story of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in different ways. In this case, without a clear and specific answer from the Bible, and not being able to base on historical facts or scientific evidence, it's open to various interpretations.