195,000 Years To Invent The Shovel

[Yozavan]

Why did it take humans 195,000 years to Invent the shovel?

According to Wikipedia, shoulder blades from an ox were used as shovels 5-8 thousand years ago. Bronze shovels came much later. Biologists say humans have been doing their thing for 200,000 years

Possible considerations for debate:

1) Perhaps our racoonian ancesters were in shell shock after surviving the dinosaurian drama, thus PTSD was inherited by their future primate progeny.

2) We live in a simulation and such questions are futile.

3) Satan successfully thwarted every previous attempt to Invent a shovel.

4) Science only has two centuries under its belt, and shouldn't be taken seriously yet.

5) Shovels are exceedingly hard to invent.

[Clownboat]

The earth is becoming more ungodly which is why violence is increasing so alarmingly in America.

Only when Christians and Muslims stop telling their children that there is a God that loves them so much as to send them to heaven, yet hates the other so much as to send them to a hell, will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed. See the Crusades for just one major example of the truth of this.

Do you notice how my words ring true and yours are just repeated unfalsifiable religious platitudes? Yours sound good when the goal is to prop up one god over another or no god, but mine are true regardless.

I do believe that the world currently needs religions though. Some people can be good for goodness sake, but not all, therefore for the others, we do need god concepts to tell them how to act. Many Christians have admitted to how they would be willing to murder and/or rape etc. if they didn't serve a god (I do find this hard to believe, but must trust their sincerity). Therefore, thank goodness for these god concepts that do in fact prevent some humans from committing atrocities.

My take on this is that if there really are Gods out there and they do care how we act, they will respect those that are good for goodness sake over those doing it to avoid hell or to get some heaven. Just my take on this hypothetical...

[marke]

Not Infallible: Isochron dating is not an infallible method, and there are cases where it can produce inaccurate ages.
Not a Proof of Old Ages: Even if an isochron method produces an age, it does not prove that the rock or mineral is "old" in a way that is irrefutable.

There are entire books written on the way to assure that sampling for radioisotope dating must be done to be valid. Only when these conditions are met, is isochron dating done. Once again, AI fails.

Marke:

AI Overview
Learn more
No, dates derived by radioactive dating methods are not irrefutably accurate; while highly reliable, they are subject to uncertainties and potential errors, including laboratory errors, unrecognized geological factors, and misapplication of techniques.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/ra ... NC78vE_vfG

Radiometric Dating: Problems with the Assumptions
by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling on October 1, 2009 ; last featured August 4, 2010

Radiometric dating is often used to “prove” rocks are millions of years old. Once you understand the basic science, however, you can see how wrong assumptions lead to incorrect dates.

Radiometric Dating 101
PART 1: Back to Basics

PART 2: Problems with the Assumptions

PART 3: Making Sense of the Patterns

This three-part series will help you properly understand radiometric dating, the assumptions that lead to inaccurate dates, and the clues about what really happened in the past.

Most people think that radioactive dating has proven earth is billions of years old. Yet this view is based on a misunderstanding of how radiometric dating works.

[marke]

You've confused the Green River Laminates with lake varves:

Green River laminites: Does the playa-lake model really invalidate the stratified-lake model?
Bruce W. Boyer
Author and Article Information
Geology (1982) 10 (6): 321–324.

Abstract
Proponents of the playa-lake model have proposed deposition of most of the Green River Formation microlaminated carbonates (including oil shales) in lakes that were not perennially stratified (meromictic). However, there is a variety of evidence favoring a meromictic depositional environment: (1) close similarity of much of the lamination to varves in modern meromictic lakes, (2) evidence that hydrologic events favoring development of meromixis (chemical stratification) occurred prior to deposition of major accumulations of oil shale, (3) mutually exclusive distribution of fossil nekton (especially fish) and normal lacustrine benthos (including mollusks), and (4) analogy with a Quaternary playa that became a meromictic lake following increased inflow.
Bruce W. Boyer; Green River laminites: Does the playa-lake model really invalidate the stratified-lake model?. Geology 1982;; 10 (6): 321–324. doi: https://doi.org/10.1130/0091-7613(1982) ... P>2.0.CO;2

Depending on AI to cover for a lack of understanding leads one into this kind of confusion.

Marke: If one claims bird, animal, or fish remains are not preserved in lake varves then one should be able to show support for such a contention.

AI Overview
Learn more
Yes, animal fossils, including fish, bird, and insect fossils, have been found in lake varves, particularly in glaciolacustrine sediments.

[marke]

And of course, we have always had examples of animals dying and falling into anoxic water, being preserved and then slowly covered by sediment. The first species of Archaeopteryx were found in such burials.

Marke: Assuming fossils found in lake varves were preserved from decay long enough to be slowly buried by dozens or hundreds of years of varve sedimentation is an unproven assumption that sounds like something an opponent of factual conclusions would make up if looking to deny the facts.

[marke]

What you claim is demonstrably wrong because there is no agreed to Biblical record. You words are therefore nonsensical, sorry.

Marke: It does not matter how many different opinions humans have about the Biblical record no human datimg method has ever been proven irrefutably accurate when yielding age of earth estimates in the billions of years.

It matters not that you reject modern dating methods. You will die off and we will have educated the next generation.
Your claim about a Biblical record is what I addressed, because you refer to one as if there is one when their isn't. That is why your words were nonsense, not because you don't accept modern dating methods.

When someone critiques the Bible, why do you ignore these critiques to instead complain about dating methods, evolution or a big bang? In your world, does that make the critiques go away or perhaps you think you are distracting us away from the made critiques and we will forget about them?

Marke: Pointing out problems with unproven dating methods is not a complaint, it is simply posting facts.

[marke]

Marke: Your suggestion about the need for those believing lies, myths, and false ideas to die off may have some validity

It does, because it is history. Learn it, or repeat it.

in explaining why by God purged the wicked nations who promoted lies and wickedness as a result of their incurable delusions.

Holy fallen off the deep end!
Please show that you speak the truth and that a god purged the wicked nations (meaning all nations are now not wicked? ) and that these nations were promoting lies and wickedness and had incurable delusions. I await your justifications and will consider it evil to not justify such a condemning stance you level at your fellow humans, because 'Jesus'.

Marke: Nobody can prove or disprove the Bible. God designed it that way.

[marke]

The earth is becoming more ungodly which is why violence is increasing so alarmingly in America.

Only when Christians and Muslims stop telling their children that there is a God that loves them so much as to send them to heaven, yet hates the other so much as to send them to a hell, will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed. See the Crusades for just one major example of the truth of this.

Do you notice how my words ring true and yours are just repeated unfalsifiable religious platitudes? Yours sound good when the goal is to prop up one god over another or no god, but mine are true regardless.

I do believe that the world currently needs religions though. Some people can be good for goodness sake, but not all, therefore for the others, we do need god concepts to tell them how to act. Many Christians have admitted to how they would be willing to murder and/or rape etc. if they didn't serve a god (I do find this hard to believe, but must trust their sincerity). Therefore, thank goodness for these god concepts that do in fact prevent some humans from committing atrocities.

My take on this is that if there really are Gods out there and they do care how we act, they will respect those that are good for goodness sake over those doing it to avoid hell or to get some heaven. Just my take on this hypothetical...

Marke: There is a God and He will judge the unrepentant wicked for their abominable deeds just as He said He would.

[The Barbarian]

And of course, we have always had examples of animals dying and falling into anoxic water, being preserved and then slowly covered by sediment. The first species of Archaeopteryx were found in such burials.

Marke: Assuming fossils found in lake varves were preserved from decay long enough to be slowly buried by dozens or hundreds of years of varve sedimentation is an unproven assumption that sounds like something an opponent of factual conclusions would make up if looking to deny the facts.

We can test that conclusion a number of ways. First, we notice that bodies found in bogs in Northern Europe date back to times before Celts and Germanic people came there. So we have absolute proof that anoxic conditions do preserve such fossils. Second, chemists can observe how well organic material persists in anoxic conditions.

No point in denial.

[The Barbarian]

Marke: Your suggestion about the need for those believing lies, myths, and false ideas to die off may have some validity

It does, because it is history. Learn it, or repeat it.

in explaining why by God purged the wicked nations who promoted lies and wickedness as a result of their incurable delusions.

Holy fallen off the deep end!
Please show that you speak the truth and that a god purged the wicked nations (meaning all nations are now not wicked? ) and that these nations were promoting lies and wickedness and had incurable delusions. I await your justifications and will consider it evil to not justify such a condemning stance you level at your fellow humans, because 'Jesus'.

Marke: Nobody can prove or disprove the Bible. God designed it that way.

But we can (and do) disprove assumptions creationists make about the Bible and what it says.

[The Barbarian]

You've confused the Green River Laminates with lake varves:

Green River laminites: Does the playa-lake model really invalidate the stratified-lake model?
Bruce W. Boyer
Author and Article Information
Geology (1982) 10 (6): 321–324.

Abstract
Proponents of the playa-lake model have proposed deposition of most of the Green River Formation microlaminated carbonates (including oil shales) in lakes that were not perennially stratified (meromictic). However, there is a variety of evidence favoring a meromictic depositional environment: (1) close similarity of much of the lamination to varves in modern meromictic lakes, (2) evidence that hydrologic events favoring development of meromixis (chemical stratification) occurred prior to deposition of major accumulations of oil shale, (3) mutually exclusive distribution of fossil nekton (especially fish) and normal lacustrine benthos (including mollusks), and (4) analogy with a Quaternary playa that became a meromictic lake following increased inflow.
Bruce W. Boyer; Green River laminites: Does the playa-lake model really invalidate the stratified-lake model?. Geology 1982;; 10 (6): 321–324. doi: https://doi.org/10.1130/0091-7613(1982) ... P>2.0.CO;2

Depending on AI to cover for a lack of understanding leads one into this kind of confusion.

Marke: If one claims bird, animal, or fish remains are not preserved in lake varves then one should be able to show support for such a contention.

AI Overview
Learn more
Yes, animal fossils, including fish, bird, and insect fossils, have been found in lake varves, particularly in glaciolacustrine sediments.

Not surprisingly, C-14 testing of fossils only a few tens of thousands of years old, confirm the annual deposition of two layers in lake varves every year. You seem to have completed my argument for me.