How can we possibly have free will?

Compassionist · Post by **Compassionist** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:05 pm

How can we possibly have free will? Without omnipotence, it is impossible to have free will. We, biological organisms, are all prisoners of causality. We are all doomed to be conceived without our consent, doomed to do the inevitable, doomed to suffer and doomed to die. If I were truly free, I would have already gone back in time and prevented all suffering and injustice by making everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent and omniculpable. Please see: and and https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... p-in-brain Thank you.

marco · Post by **marco** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:38 pm

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 78 by marco]

Yes we have pictures of everything that has weight. We have picture of atoms and everything is made of atoms. Souls if there are any are on Earth to start with. Don't you agree they leave the body and therefore we should be able to picture them leaving the body. Right?

What does having a picture of a soul on earth have to do with having a picture of everything in the universe?

I am not defending the proposition that a soul has weight or even that a soul exists. It might. Discussing its weight and picturing it do not seem to me to be very good ways of attacking the proposition. You suppose that everything that has weight has been pictured; I suppose there are many things that have not been pictured, and indeed there may be particles we have as yet not found. Is this a foolish idea or can it be based on what has been happening in the last half century? You speak as if our knowledge is complete. It isn't, and the soul may well be defined in the gaps in our knowledge.

Given we have discovered virtual particles that seem to appear and disappear, it is not too far fetched to claim the existence of a soul that accompanies living humans.

marco · Post by **marco** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:41 pm

ttruscott wrote:
marco wrote: Exercising free will reponsibly is a mark of a good person.
Yes, and the exercise of a will dominated by evil and addicted to sin has no free will and therefore is not marked as from a good person.

I don't know what this proves. An addiction does remove a person's ability to make free choices, as do many illnesses and congenital diseases. Does a will "dominated by" good and addicted to goodness demonstrate freedom?

ThePainefulTruth · Post by **ThePainefulTruth** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:27 pm

Donray wrote: Question: Does one make a choice on there belief in a god and afterlife? If so is that free will or obeying gods will?

Free will is making moral decisions based on reason. Believing in something without reason is nothing but blind faith.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Question: Does one make a choice on there belief in a god and afterlife? If so is that free will or obeying gods will?

IF GOD forces that belief, faith, in any way at all, then it is by HIS will. If HE does absolutely nothing to force our faith and allows absolutely nothing to force our faith and it arises strictly from our own self, our own desires and hopes for what we want, THEN it is our own faith by our free will.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 pm

marco wrote: Does a will "dominated by" good and addicted to goodness demonstrate freedom?

Goodness is not an addiction like evil is. It is always a choice in which you put, minute by minute, love, righteousness, justice and holiness, ie being in accord with GOD, ahead of everything else BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY YOU KNOW THAT TRUE HEAVENLY HAPPINESS CAN BE ATTAINED!

You know this because it has been experientially proven to you in your life as a human sinner on earth.

You do dope because you crave it. You quit dope because you want to be free of it. In spiritual terms people sin because they crave it but once that creating is over (by GOD's grace) you do not do it because you are free of it and never want to see the consequences of it again. Sorry, rough analogy but it holds, on the surface at least.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:42 pm

[Replying to post 85 by ttruscott]

You do know that you are saying your god stopped the caving and not the person. What does by your god's grace mean? Does it mean that your god was involved in the person decision not to sin?

By the why, can you tell me what sins your god objectively does not tolerate and sends you to hell and never forgives you? I have head that with god there are not objective moral values. What are these that are not subjected to god forgiveness?

marco · Post by **marco** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:12 pm

ttruscott wrote:
Question: Does one make a choice on there belief in a god and afterlife? If so is that free will or obeying gods will?
IF GOD forces that belief, faith, in any way at all, then it is by HIS will. If HE does absolutely nothing to force our faith and allows absolutely nothing to force our faith and it arises strictly from our own self, our own desires and hopes for what we want, THEN it is our own faith by our free will.

Yes, and this is exactly the situation that obtains were there no God. The acceptance of free will's existence in no way points to the presence of an agreeable deity.

ThePainefulTruth · Post by **ThePainefulTruth** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:04 am

Compassionist wrote: How can we possibly have free will? Without omnipotence, it is impossible to have free will. We, biological organisms, are all prisoners of causality. We are all doomed to be conceived without our consent, doomed to do the inevitable, doomed to suffer and doomed to die. If I were truly free, I would have already gone back in time and prevented all suffering and injustice by making everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent and omniculpable. Please see: and and https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... p-in-brain Thank you.

We are not free from natural law. Free will means moral free will, the ability to choose to do harm...or not.

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:58 am

ThePainefulTruth wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
How can we possibly have free will? Without omnipotence, it is impossible to have free will. We, biological organisms, are all prisoners of causality. We are all doomed to be conceived without our consent, doomed to do the inevitable, doomed to suffer and doomed to die. If I were truly free, I would have already gone back in time and prevented all suffering and injustice by making everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent and omniculpable. Please see: and and https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... p-in-brain Thank you.

We are not free from natural law. Free will means moral free will, the ability to choose to do harm...or not.

Question: Does your god ever interfer with man? Does he answer prays? If either of these are true then god is controlling and not your free will.

Your god punishes thoes that use will.

ThePainefulTruth · Post by **ThePainefulTruth** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:22 am

Donray wrote:
ThePainefulTruth wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
How can we possibly have free will? Without omnipotence, it is impossible to have free will. We, biological organisms, are all prisoners of causality. We are all doomed to be conceived without our consent, doomed to do the inevitable, doomed to suffer and doomed to die. If I were truly free, I would have already gone back in time and prevented all suffering and injustice by making everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent and omniculpable. Please see: and and https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... p-in-brain Thank you.

We are not free from natural law. Free will means moral free will, the ability to choose to do harm...or not.

Question: Does your god ever interfer with man? Does he answer prays? If either of these are true then god is controlling and not your free will.

Your god punishes thoes that use will.

"MY" God, THE God (if It exists at all), never interacts in the universe, precisely because doing so would demolish our free will. That non-interaction is obvious, and is why there are only two reasonable positions on the existence of God: agnostic-atheism and agnostic-deism.

And if you could go back in time and prevent suffering, you would demolish free will as well.

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