Suicide

[Suzy]

I have excellent health and a long way to go yet before I jump of this mortal coil.
But I am going to finish my own life when or if my life is no longer enjoyable, no longer worth living and when I know it will never get better. For instance chronic pain and knowing it will get worse with no hope of relief from drugs. This can happen at any time in life so I have already thought of it. [Yes, I know I’m weird]

I am an atheist so my logic tells me that death itself is O.K. [but not necessarily getting there] I was not here for millions of years before I was born and I was fine with that. It was a breeze!

A point I should mention here is the means used to ‘end it all’ I will keep that to myself for obvious reasons but it will be painless and 100% successful. [Not jumping under a train because I am a coward and also someone has to clear all the mess up]

So to the point and I would like your views on it. What about our love ones. Some say it’s selfish to take your own life because of what you do to them. I say it’s selfish of them if they don’t let you go if you are suffering.
Me being me I have already cleared it with my family [all atheists] so I am good to go.

[Wissing]

What sort of background? Anything really. Some sort of proffessional insight would do wonders for this conversation . As it stands, we're a bunch of people (myself included) who don't know what we're talking about.

The reason I'm in this discussion is because its very existence is indicative of an underlying hedonist ideology that is making individuals more self-focused in our society. The point I want to make is that happiness (and freedom from suffering) are not the end goal. There is a purpose for every man, woman, and child - even if they're all suffering. If you're really that bad off, you'll die a natural death soon enough. But to take it oneself reveals a focus on the pain, and thus the self. One should seek a state of being such that pain is merely a nuisance in the way of a real purpose.

[Suzy]

What sort of background? Anything really. Some sort of proffessional insight would do wonders for this conversation . As it stands, we're a bunch of people (myself included) who don't know what we're talking about.

The reason I'm in this discussion is because its very existence is indicative of an underlying hedonist ideology that is making individuals more self-focused in our society. The point I want to make is that happiness (and freedom from suffering) are not the end goal. There is a purpose for every man, woman, and child - even if they're all suffering. If you're really that bad off, you'll die a natural death soon enough. But to take it oneself reveals a focus on the pain, and thus the self. One should seek a state of being such that pain is merely a nuisance in the way of a real purpose.

This is where you and I will have to disagree. Try to see it from an atheists point of view.
I am here to enjoy myself and have fun. I know that we are only an intelligent ape living on a small planet wising around a small star and when I die that’s it. There is no purpose in life except making the most out of the life we have now.
So my very logical mind tells me that if/when I get to the point of ‘not having fun’ dying from some horrible disease or something, then its ‘goodbye world’

Your ‘end goal’ is not my ‘end goal’ Its all very simple really if you don’t get mixed up with religion.

[jamesyaqub]

the mess up]

So to the point and I would like your views on it. What about our love ones. Some say it’s selfish to take your own life because of what you do to them. I say it’s selfish of them if they don’t let you go if you are suffering.
Me being me I have already cleared it with my family [all atheists] so I am good to go.

OK well since you ask for opinions I will tell you mine. First I believe in God but have very guarded opinions of religions. I rather think it much more efficient to interact with God directly, leaving out the middlemen (preachers).

It is my belief that when a person kills himself for selfish reasons he/she will have to repeat the life experiences that were escaped in another time. So don't do it.

[Wissing]

Suzy I fail to see how our primate ancestry implies a lack of purpose in life. If anything, it would say that our corner of the cosmos is heading in a certain direction - from chaos to order, from less intelligent to more intelligent, from nothing to something. The fact that you are an "intelligent" ape, and not just a regular old ape, should mean that you do have a purpose in life. What is "enjoyment" anyway. If you're bringing natural selection into this, enjoyment is just a conscious manifestation of a deep-rooted survival mechanism. Like I said, happiness is a tool your body uses to keep you alive, not an end in itself.

If you really want to be consistent, you need to say that your purpose is to survive, not to "be happy". Happiness is a pretty ethereal notion for someone as logical as you.

[Suzy]

the mess up]

It is my belief that when a person kills himself for selfish reasons he/she will have to repeat the life experiences that were escaped in another time. So don't do it.

Thank you for your input but being an atheist I will do it. [when and if the time is right]

happiness is a tool your body uses to keep you alive, not an end in itself.
.

My point exactly. Happiness keeps me alive. Unhappy [please take into account what I mean by that in the context of my thread] does not keep me alive. So I am gone.
The purpose in life that you refer to is just evolution working. On a personal level I have no purpose in life but to enjoy it.

[Wissing]

Suzy, I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish you could see your purpose in life. I believe, a posteriori that, ironically, happiness can only be achieved as a by-product of the rejection of self. Selfish desire is fleeting... or as Solomon would put it "vanity and chasing after the wind". It won't last.

Luckily, happiness is not the point. As with Paul in Phillipians 4:11-12, it is possible to be content.

for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

I wish you the best, and I hope your soul will awake and find its passion; you only have so much time.

[Goat]

Suzy, I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish you could see your purpose in life. I believe, a posteriori that, ironically, happiness can only be achieved as a by-product of the rejection of self. Selfish desire is fleeting... or as Solomon would put it "vanity and chasing after the wind". It won't last.

Luckily, happiness is not the point. As with Paul in Phillipians 4:11-12, it is possible to be content.

for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

I wish you the best, and I hope your soul will awake and find its passion; you only have so much time.

Gosh, that sounds condescending. Suzy seems to do just fine. This was apparently an intellectual exercise, and getting preached at in such a manner reinforces that initial rejection of religion.

[Wissing]

A lovely house, plenty of money [thank you hubby]. Suzy is bubbling with life.
If you can’t see the point I am making then I give up on you.

carry on not enjoying life or stop?
Me, I will stop.

I am here to enjoy myself and have fun.... if/when I get to the point of ‘not having fun’ dying from some horrible disease or something, then its ‘goodbye world’

I have no purpose in life but to enjoy it.

Do I misinterpret these comments? I think these point very clearly to an unapologetic self-focused ideology, devoid of passion for life.

If I'm painting a person disingenuously, I do so to my own shame, and am wrong for it (wouldn't be the first time). However, if an Epicurean ideology really is being upheld here, my aim is to counter it, and I don't consider it condescending or insulting to do so.

[UNBeliever905]

i do not have to know anyone personally go through this to care about, understand or discuss this topic.

I disagree. Which means you have pointed out a flaw in my logic - I shouldn't be discussing this either, because I do not know intolerable pain. I admit it. I doubt anyone here is really qualified to decide this.

It is a situation all too common amongst families and individuals around the world.

How have you assessed the soundness of the research you've done that has led you to that conclusion? If you don't have personal experience, whose experience are you leaning on?

The very fact that you disagree with me not having to know someone whos gone through this to care about it shows you are a VERY unempathetic person yourself. If you dont know someone personally but hear of their illlness or the pain and suffering they feel, do you not care? That sir is disgusting (admittedly only by my own humanist godless standard) and if thats the case id honestly rather you not respond to anything else i say, i have no use for conversation with people working against humanity's better interests. And ive assessed it through anecdotal tales of friends who have known people in similar situations, a family friend who was very ill and recently passed in a great deal of pain leaving behind 2 daughters under the age of 10 and the stories she had of people going for treatment that she knew. The stories and evidence are out there if your one of those people who take 5 minutes to do some research.

[Suzy]

A lovely house, plenty of money [thank you hubby]. Suzy is bubbling with life.
If you can’t see the point I am making then I give up on you.

carry on not enjoying life or stop?
Me, I will stop.

I am here to enjoy myself and have fun.... if/when I get to the point of ‘not having fun’ dying from some horrible disease or something, then its ‘goodbye world’

I have no purpose in life but to enjoy it.

Do I misinterpret these comments? I think these point very clearly to an unapologetic self-focused ideology, devoid of passion for life.

If I'm painting a person disingenuously, I do so to my own shame, and am wrong for it (wouldn't be the first time). However, if an Epicurean ideology really is being upheld here, my aim is to counter it, and I don't consider it condescending or insulting to do so.

I say ‘I have no purpose in life but to enjoy it’ and then you say ‘I have no passion for life?’ Perhaps you could explain to me how you arrive at that concussion Wissing?
Perhaps its because I have such a passion for life that I don’t let religion get in the way of it!
But in one thing you are not wrong. I do follow the Epicurean ideology within the framework of being an atheist.
So you go on being held back from enjoying all the pleasures that life has to offer because your God says you cant do this or that and I will indulge myself in all of life’s pleasures!
I get the impression that you have a problem with understanding someone that is a true, intelligent and outspoken realist. And it shows when you make your comments about my thread.